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Historical Rosicrucianism e-mail group archive
December 1996.

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Subject: RC - Booksearch - Richter
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:56:30 +0100 (MET)
From: Douwe

I am looking for a book which is called "Die warhafte und volkommene
bereitung des philosophischen Stein der Brüderschaft aus dem Orden des
Guldenen und Rosen Kreutzen".
The book is written in 1710 by Sigmund Richter.

Maybe it has been translated somewhere then the title might sound like
something like "The true and perfect preparation of the Philosophers stone
of the brotherhood out of the order of the golden and rosy cross".

If anyone knows where I would be able to obtain a copy of this book then I
would be very pleased to hear about it.

Best regards,

Douwe

Subject: RC - Original thought of the R.C.
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:56:44 +0100 (MET)
From: douwe

It is hard to gain insight which is not speculative when you are dealing
with such a thing as a 'secret' society like the R.C.
I guess that most of us are here to find something which is not speculative
at all, and I believe that with all the bits and pieces of historical facts
which we know together, we might be able to solve a couple of historical and
philosophical problems, and place some pieces in the puzzle rather by logic
than by esoteric speculations.

I hope that everyone will steadily hold this in mind, so that any teaching
of Randolph, Spencer Lewis, Heindel, etc. doesn't count here apart from a
historical standpoint, because here it comes down to facts that can be
proven, so that we all will gain a deeper insight in the involvements of
this hidden group.

In this sphere I am thinking when I try to approach the R.C. Society from
the beginning of the 17th century.
It is common fact for most of us that J.V. Andrea wrote the Alchemical
wedding, but from what kind of background?
We know that he was involved in the Fruchtbringende Gesellschaft, (the
fruit-bringing Society) which was founded by Prince Ludwig von Anhalt.
Further he wrote books like the Christianapolis and Turris Babel (of which I
wonder if there is any reprint around).

Now my question is, who knows anything from this society, what was the basis
for its existence?, what thought was behind it?
What is the key subject in Turris Babel?
What is the key of the theology of Andrea.

Further there is a reference in the Fama where Paracelsus is mentioned as
being someone of a same vocation and calling as the R.C. while he was not a
member of this Fraternity.

Now my other question is what is the same vocation and calling that
Paracelsus had?
This might be found in his religious and philosophical writings, or maybe he
said something about his vocation and calling in some place.

So we have two people and like this we have two links which I personally
would find interesting to follow.

I hope that anyone could fill in the details on these people, maybe give a
profile of their background and thought, so that we can fill each other in, in
such a way that we all get wiser from it.

There are undoubtedly more links that can be found, so I guess that anyone
who thinks of one would post it in this group so that we can research it
together.

Best regards,

Douwe

Subject: RC - Original thought of the R.C.
From: Paul Dupuy
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 1996 00:47:38 -0600

>It is common fact for most of us that J.V. Andrea wrote the Alchemical
>wedding, but from what kind of background?

Is there a "biography" of Andrea?

>We know that he was involved in the Fruchtbringende Gesellschaft, (the
>fruit-bringing Society) which was founded by Prince Ludwig von Anhalt.
>Further he wrote books like the Christianapolis and Turris Babel (of which I
>wonder if there is any reprint around).

Was any of Andrea's work (besides "Chemical Wedding") ever
translated into English?

>Now my question is, who knows anything from this society, what was the basis
>for its existence?, what thought was behind it?

What is the source for his association with the Fruchtbringende?

Along similar lines, can anyone elaborate on the "Family of Love"?

Ahavah!

Paul Dupuy

Subject: RC - Booksearch - Richter
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:56:30 +0100 (MET)
From:

Douwe wrote:-

>I am looking for a book which is called "Die warhafte und volkommene
>bereitung des philosophischen Stein der Brüderschaft aus dem Orden des
>Guldenen und Rosen Kreutzen".
>The book is written in 1710 by Sigmund Richter.

There is a copy of the 1710 edition (Bresslau) in the Young Collection in The University of Strathclyde Library, in Glasgow.

This book was reprinted in 1714 (also in Bresslau), and copies can be found in The Bibliotheca Philosophica Hermetica and in the Herzog-August Bibliothek in Wolfenbuttel.

This book was reprinted in a collection of Richter's works:-

Sinceri Renati sämtliche philosophisch- und chymische Schrifften... Leipzig, 1741.

and copies are found in the Ferguson Collection in Glasgow University Library, the Young Collection and the Bibliotheca Philosophica Hermetica.

If there is any particular information you need from this book, I can take a look at it next time I am at the Ferguson Collection.

Adam McLean

Subject: RC - Rosie Crucian Prayer to God.
From: Adam McLean
Date: 4Dec 1996

Here is an interesting Rosicrucian prayer included in
John Heydon : The holy guide: leading the way to the wonder of the world: (a compleat phisitian) teaching the knowledge of all things, past, present, and to come; viz. of pleasure, long life, health, youth, blessedness, wisdome and virtue; and to cure, change and remedy all diseases in young and old. With Rosie Crucian mediciens, which are verified by a practical examination of principles in the great world, and fitted for the easie understanding, plain practice, use and benefit of mean capacities...
London, printed by T.M. and are to be sold by Thomas Whittlesey at the Globe in Cannor-Street, near London-Stone, and at all other booksellers shops, 1662

--------------------------

The Rosie Crucian Prayer to God.

Jesus Mihi Omnia.

Oh Thou everywhere and good of All, whatever I do, remember, I beseech Thee, that I am but Dust, but as a Vapour sprung from Earth, which even the smallest Breath can scatter; Thou hast given me a Soul, and Laws to govern it; let that Eternal Rule, which thou didst first appoint to sway Man, order me; make me careful to point at thy Glory in all my wayes; and where I cannot rightly know Thee, that not only my understanding, but my ignorance may honour thee.
Thou are All that can be perfect; Thy Revelation hath made me happy; be not angry, O Divine One, O God the most high Creator, if it please thee, suffer these revealed Secrets, Thy Gifts alone, not for my praise, but to thy Glory, to manifest themselves.
I beseech thee most gracious God, they may not fall into the hands of ignorant envious persons, that cloud these truths to thy disgrace, saying, they are not lawful to be published, because what God reveals, is to be kept secret. But Rosie Crucian Philosophers lay up this Secret in to the bosome of God, which I have presumed to manifest clearly and plainly. I beseech the Trinity, it may be printed as I have written it, that the Truth may no more be darkened with ambiguous language.
Oh stream thy Self into my Soul, and flow it with thy Grace, thy Illumination, and thy Revelation. Make me to depend on Thee: Thou delightest that Man should account Thee as his King, and not hide what Honey of Knowledge he hath revealed.
I cast my self as an honourer of Thee at thy feet. O establish my confidence in Thee, for thou art the fountain of all bounty, and canst not but be merciful, nor canst thou deceive the humbled Soul that trusts Thee: And because I cannot be defended by thee, unless I live after thy Laws, keep me, O my Souls Soveraign, in the obedience of thy Will, and that I wound not my Conscience with vice, and hiding thy Gifts and Graces bestowed upon me; for this I know will destroy me within, and make thy Illuminating Spirit leave me: I am afraid I have already infinitely swerved from the Revelation of that Divine Guide, which thou hast commanded to direct me to the Truth; and for this I am a sad Prostrate and Penitent at the foot of thy Throne; I appeal only to the abundance of thy Remissions.
O my God, my God, I know it is a mysterie beyond the vast Souls apprehension, and therefore deep enough for Man to rest in safely.
O thou Being of Beings, cause me to work myself to thee, and into the receiving armes of thy paternal Mercies throw myself. For outward things I thank thee, and such as I have I give to others, in the name of the Trinity freely and faithfully, without hindering any thing of what was revealed to me, and experienced to be no Diabolical Delusion or Dream, but the Adjectamenta of thy richer Graces; the Mines and deprivation are both in thy hands.
In what thou hast given me I am content.
Good God ray thy self into my Soul, give me but a heart to please thee, I beg no more then thou hast given, and that to continue me, uncontemnedly and unpittiedly honest.
Save me from the Devil, Lusts, and Men, and for those fond dotages of Mortality, which would weigh down my Soul to Lowness and Debauchment; let it be my glory (planting my self in a Noble height above them) to contemn them.
Take me from my self, and fill me but with thee.
Sum up thy blessings in those two, that I may be rightly good and wise; And these for thy eternal Truths sake grant and make grateful.

Subject: RC - Rosie Crucian Prayer to God
From: Adam McLean
Date: 4Dec 1996

Does anyone know the source for the 'Rosie Crucian Prayer to God' in
John Heydon : The holy guide... London, 1662.

I feel sure Heydon himself did not write this, but took it from some earlier book.

Adam McLean

Subject: RC - Andreae's 'Christianopolis'
From: Adam McLean
Date: 7th Dec 1996

Andreae's 'Christianopolis' was published in 1619, and appears to predate Bacon's 'New Atlantis'. It clearly draws on More's 'Utopia', written a century earlier. The central character (or observer) in this Utopia is shipwrecked on an island near the South Pole, called Caplar Salama. He is taken on a guided tour of the city of Christianopolis, where everything is ordered and organised in an ideal manner. The four-square plan of the city is show as an engraving in the book, and it is very similar to the idealised depictions of the 'New Jerusalem'. The observer is show the craft factories and provisioning of the city, the library, the laboratory, and the schools of Arts (based on but extending the classical seven liberal arts).

Robert Boyle was very impressed by this work, and in 1647, in a letter to Samuel Hartlib expressed the wish that an English version might be made.

I have wondered what relationship this work has to the 'Chymical Wedding', indeed although it concerns a similar sort of subject as the 'Chymical Wedding', a journey to a strange realm, their treatments are so very different. The description of 'Christianopolis' is so dull, flat, humourless, idealised, and didactic, whereas the 'Chymical Wedding' (published 3 years earlier) is a pacey, witty, work, full of dramatic incidents, and elaborate allegorical inventions. It is difficult to believe they were written by the same person. I cannot easily believe that the differences of writing in Latin and German can explain the enormous difference in style. Was Andreae really the author of the 'Chymical Wedding'? He does state this in his autobiography, I believe, but were there other reasons for him so doing?

I wonder if anyone has access to the Held edition. This translation is now out of copyright so it would be good if someone could provide me with a transcription of the translation, or good quality photocopies I can scan and OCR, so that I can place this onto the alchemy web site. I have access to this work in the National Library of Scotland, but they charge a great deal tomake photocopies. Then we could all consider this text, and its relevance to Rosicrucianism.

Adam McLean

Date: Thu, 5 Dec 1996 14:55:34 +0100 (MET)
From: douwe
Subject: Re: RC - Original thought of the R.C.

>>It is common fact for most of us that J.V. Andrea wrote the Alchemical
>>wedding, but from what kind of background?
>
> Is there a "biography" of Andrea?
>

There are many places where you may read about Andea, although I don't know
of any biography in English.

>>We know that he was involved in the Fruchtbringende Gesellschaft, (the
>>fruit-bringing Society) which was founded by Prince Ludwig von Anhalt.
>>Further he wrote books like the Christianapolis and Turris Babel (of which I
>>wonder if there is any reprint around).
>
> Was any of Andrea's work (besides "Chemical Wedding") ever
>translated into English?

There is a translation of the Christianopolis by Dr E. F. Held which has
been published in 1917 by the Oxford University Press.
I don't know of any reprints of this but you probably would find a copy
trough a very good bookshop which could do a extensive book search for you
if they don't have it on their list of available books.
(The best book shops do search for second hand books too).

>>Now my question is, who knows anything from this society, what was the basis
>>for its existence?, what thought was behind it?
>
> What is the source for his association with the Fruchtbringende?

Almost every book on the Rosicrucian mentions this connection (I think A.E.
Waite makes mention of it in his "Brotherhood of the Rosy Cross", F. A.
Yates talks about it in "The Rosicrucian Enlightenment", and C. McIntosh,
mentions it too in his book "The Rosicrucians" (which mainly repeats the
R.C. enlightenment).
These are the ones that I know off by heart, but I would probably be able to
find more references if you would be interested.

Further I am working my way through some non-English books, if I might find
out more about the Fruchtbringende Gesellschaft, then I'll mention it here
in this group.

Best regards,

Douwe.

Subject: RC - Original thought of the R.C.
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 12:21:39 -0800
From: Adam Forrest

Avete, scholares Roseae Crucis.

Greetings to all participating in the new RC list. Though my insane
schedule requires me to be a lowly lurker most of the time, I would like
to say how pleased I am at the prospect of observing and occasionally
participating in a Rosicrucian discussion (sans "puffers") grounded in
the practical guidelines set out in the initial Welcome post.

Douwe wrote:

> It is common fact for most of us that J.V. Andrea wrote the Alchemical
> wedding, but from what kind of background?
> We know that he was involved in the Fruchtbringende Gesellschaft, (the
> fruit-bringing Society) which was founded by Prince Ludwig von Anhalt.
> Further he wrote books like the Christianapolis and Turris Babel (of which I
> wonder if there is any reprint around).

I have always been somewhat uncomfortable, in spite of his own
from-the-horse's-mouth assertion, with the unequivocal attribution of
the 'Chymische Hochzeit' to Andreae. I read somewhere recently (I think
it was in our own Adam McLean's notes to the Godwin translation) the
suggestion that Andreae might have written an Alchemical Wedding
'ludibrium' in his youth that served as the 'prima materia' for the
Rosenkreuz version, significantly revised and expanded by a circle of
which he was a member. There is no evidence available to support the
suggestion (of which I am aware), but it is an interesting notion.

> Further there is a reference in the Fama where Paracelsus is mentioned as
> being someone of a same vocation and calling as the R.C. while he was not a
> member of this Fraternity.
>
> Now my other question is what is the same vocation and calling that
> Paracelsus had?
> This might be found in his religious and philosophical writings, or maybe he
> said something about his vocation and calling in some place.

I have assumed that referred to the vocation of (unorthodox,
non-Galenist) healer. Recall that the only public claim of the RC
Fratres of the 'Fama' was to be "the healing of the sick, and that
gratis".

Regards,
Adam Forrest

Subject: RC - Original thought of the R.C.
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 1996 17:46:39 +0100 (MET)
From: douwe

>I have assumed that referred to the vocation of (unorthodox,
>non-Galenist) healer (Paracelsus). Recall that the only public claim of the RC
>Fratres of the 'Fama' was to be "the healing of the sick, and that
>gratis".
>
>Regards,
>Adam Forrest

In my own copy it said after my own translation (I can't find the English
translation that I have) "...Truely where they the top of the flaming
triangle, of which the flames will now start to shine forth more clearly,
and they surely will light up the last flame of this world.
Someone with the same calling was Theophrastus, who, although while he
didn't belong to our brotherhood, did studiously read the book M. through
which he enlightened the sharp insight which he already possessed since his
birth."

The gratis healing of the sick was one of the things they claimed to do.
On reading the 'Confessio' and its 37 grounds on which the insight of the R.C.
is based, you will find that it hardly talks of healing.

Healing of the sick may also be taken symbolically of course, because when
you look with an honest eye at the world around, then you can't do anything
else but claim that everyone is sick, everyone - morally, half of those
mentally and the half of those are physically ill as well.
This is simply proven by the fact that you get upset over the things
happening to you... which again proves that you are from your head till both
your feet in this world, and that you don't even breathe a particle of that
Fume of Eternity... if this would be differently then you would not be too
bothered about the happenings around you, but more focused on the inner
communion.

Paracelsus talks of this in his religious writings (Philosophia Magna- LIBER
DE SUMMO ET AETERNO BONO) when he states that... "nothing that comes from
the elements is the highest good, neither gold or silver... It is not worth
to talk of the temporal, while you can talk of the Eternal... Only the
(indwelling) spirit of the heavens may recognize the (eternal)highest good,
and not the material eye... only the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the
highest good, nobody can teach us but Holy Spirit..."
Then Paracelsus continuous "HE who heals the SOUL instead of the body is
more then he who heals the body instead of the soul etc...
He goes on talking about , how the Spiritual overtakes the material
tendencies and transmutes the lower animal tendencies to higher ones, which
is part of the healing of the soul, and the overcoming of this world.

It is hard to be explicit because I don't have the time right now to write a
lot more about it, but I believe that this must be clear enough like this.
But it is still worth to read this work of Paracelsus if you can get your
hands on it.
(I don't know of any English translation of this work (Philosophia Magna)
though.)

Looking at this from this angle, healing the sick may be the most important
task of a Spiritual brotherhood indeed.
Right at the end of the 'Confessio' it also says that there is a universal
medicine but that God wouldn't allow the sick to be healed, because these
illnesses are the mediums to learn from.

This may also be compared to Bacstrom's statement that the Universal
medicine should not be applied to anyone outside the brotherhood.

Best regards,

Douwe.

Subject: RC - Andreae's 'Christianopolis'
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 1996 18:44:57 +0100 (MET)
From: douwe

>From: Adam McLean
>Andreae's 'Christianopolis' was published in 1619, and appears to predate
>Bacon's 'New Atlantis'. It clearly draws on More's 'Utopia', written a
>century earlier. The central character (or observer) in this Utopia is
>shipwrecked on an island near the South Pole, called Caplar Salama. He is
>taken on a guided tour of the city of Christianopolis, where everything is
>ordered and organised in an ideal manner. The four-square plan of the city
>is show as an engraving in the book, and it is very similar to the idealised
>depictions of the 'New Jerusalem'. The observer is show the craft factories
>and provisioning of the city, the library, the laboratory, and the schools
>of Arts (based on but extending the classical seven liberal arts).
>
>Robert Boyle was very impressed by this work, and in 1647, in a letter to
>Samuel Hartlib expressed the wish that an English version might be made.
>
>I have wondered what relationship this work has to the 'Chymical Wedding',
>indeed although it concerns a similar sort of subject as the 'Chymical
>Wedding', a journey to a strange realm, their treatments are so very
>different. The description of 'Christianopolis' is so dull, flat,
>humourless, idealised, and didactic, whereas the 'Chymical Wedding'
>(published 3 years earlier) is a pacey, witty, work, full of dramatic
>incidents, and elaborate allegorical inventions. It is difficult to believe
>they were written by the same person. I cannot easily believe that the
>differences of writing in Latin and German can explain the enormous
>difference in style. Was Andreae really the author of the 'Chymical
>Wedding'? He does state this in his autobiography, I believe, but were there
>other reasons for him so doing?

To my knowledge the Christianopolis and the Alchemical wedding both have
been written in Latin, while I understand that you state that one of them is
written in German and one of them in Latin, but maybe I am mistaken somewhere.
The difference in style is obvious indeed, but I would find an other reason
more plausible.

The Christianopolis comes across to me to be a book that is written in a
short and descriptive way, as if it is stripped off from anything extra
which might confuse the mind of the reader.

The alchemical wedding is more difficult to understand, because of the many
symbols used, but if one takes the Christianopolis as a key then it may
become more easy to cut a way trough the hazard of the rich symbolism of the
Alchemical Wedding.

In this manner the Christianopolis could be called more Rosicrucian in my
eyes then the Alchemical wedding, because it is more straightforward and
clearly working on the different levels of understanding of the matter.
Andrea claimed as well that it was his most important work.

Apart from this I would like to point out the resemblances between both
works instead of the differences.
Both works are filled with a similarity of numberology, astrology, and
geometrical figures.
These are the sciences where Andrea was fond of, and which he could have
studied in the deepest depth in the library of Bresold.

Further it seems to me that Turbo for instance (another book by Andrea) is
written with a lot more wit then the Christianopolis (I haven't actually
read this book, but I get this impression when I read a description about
it) which again pleads for it that Andrea wrote the Alchemical Wedding.

Further it is proven that Tobias Hess was in the poSsession of the
manuscripts of the Alchemical wedding before its publication, and that they
also came into existence in his house.
In this sense Ritman calls Tobias Hess the heart of the manifests, Christoph
Besold the brain, and Andrea the Pen.

I also agree with this idea which shows that Andrea was not the founder of
the order, but that a similar knowledge always existed, and that Hess,
Besold, Andrea and friends were enlightened with this knowledge.
They where conscious of the universal nature of the teachings that they
revived together through studying the Philosophies, and they called the core
of this universal teaching Rosencreutzerlich "Rosicrucian", to my idea this
is why Andrea called the Alchemical wedding a ludibrium, because the order
did not exist as a presumed material order but as a spiritual order, plus
that the story of the Alchemical W. is a fully fictive comedy of course.
Further it is like any valid path, a ludibrium (deception) of this material
world, a sense that can be clearly found in the Gnosis of Valentinus for
instance.
But anyway I am wandering off...

Best regards,

Douwe.

Subject: RC - Andreae's 'Christianopolis'
From: Adam McLean
Date: 7 Dec 1996

Douwe wrote:
>To my knowledge the Christianopolis and the Alchemical wedding both
>have been written in Latin, while I understand that you state that one of
>them is written in German and one of them in Latin, but maybe I am mistaken
>somewhere. The difference in style is obvious indeed, but I would find
>another reason more plausible.

Chymische Hochzeit [in German]. Strassburg, Lazarus Zetzner, 1616.

Reipublicae Christianopolitanae Descriptio [in Latin]. Strassburg, Lazarus Zetzner, 1619.

Adam McLean

Subject: RC - Andreae
From: Jon Marshall
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 09:19:57 -0800

For Andreae in English I cannot recommend highly enough

John Warwick Montgomery 'Cross and Crucible', Martinus Nijoff 1973.

This book, though suffering occasionally from 'scholarly contempt' is
extraordinarily challenging in its reading of Andreae, which is as a pious and
orthodox Lutheran, with a passionate dislike for Rosicrucian esotericism.

He annotates the 'Chymical wedding' at great length in the second volume to
'prove' his point.

Like probably everyone on this list, I cannot agree entirely with this reading-
the 'Chymical wedding' is too beautiful and deep a text for the Lutheran
interpretation to appeal completely, but it *has* to be dealt with, and I think,
as I have written once before, that we have to seriously accept that Andreae was
completely opposed to the idea of Roscrucianism from at least 1617.

The suggestion that perhaps Andreae wrote the original version of the Wedding
which was then elaborated by someone else is interesting and would fit nicely,
only so far I don't think there is any evidence for this.

Sadly the index of Montgomery's book is not good enough for me to locate the
Fruchtbringende Gesellschaft and I can't remember them, but its a while since I
read it and I will keep looking

jon

Subject: RC - some references to John Heydon
From: Jon Marshall
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 08:20:41 -0800

Please forgive the disconnected nature of this mail.

In Roger Thompson 'Unfit for modest ears', Rowman & Littlefield, 1979

there are some interesting references to John Heydon which may need to be
chased up, and which I am unable to pursue further.

Thompson breifly describes a pamphlet called:

A strange and true conference between two notorious bawds, Damarose Page and
Pris Fotheringham, during their imprisonment and lying together in Newgate...
by Megg. Spenser, overseer of the whores and hectors on the Bank Side 1660.

This pamphlet mentions Heydon, but the author gives no information whatsoever
about what it says- he glosses "John Heydon, the lecherous Rosicrucian
astrologer, whose exploits in 1657 and 1658 were a blot on Puritan morality"
(referenced oddly and inacuratly to Hill's 'World turned upside down' - a great
book by the way)'

Apparantly the sixth part of the pamphlet 'The wandering whore' 'hints' that
Heydon wrote the first part, though Thompson thinks this unlikely'.

And Heydon is supposed to have written a pamphlet called 'advice to a daughter
against advice to a son', which I have also not heard of before.

And finally Thompson says that Heydon is mentioned in something called 'Select
city quaeries', part I, Q.6.

jon

Subject: RC - some references to John Heydon
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:35:29 -0700
From: Tom Willard

I'm glad that Adam raised his doubts about the original authorship of
"The Rosie Crucian Prayer." I too would love to know his source.

In reply to Jon's query, Heydon wrote what he did not plagiarize of

Advice to a daughter: in opposition to the Advice to a sonne; or,
Directions for your better conduct through the various and most
important encounters of this life.
London: Printed by J. Moxon for Francis Cossinet, 1658.

You can find some information on this work--as well as _The Wandering
Whore_ and _The Cheats_, a Restoration comedy poking fun at Heydon--in
my article on "John Wilson's Satire of Hermetic Medicine," published in

Literature and medicine during the eighteenth century. Ed. Marie Roberts
and Roy Porter. Wellcome Institute series in the history of medicine.
London: Routledge, 1993.

Tom Willard

Subject: RC - Original thought of the R.C.
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:55:40 -0700
From: Tom Willard

"J.V. Andrea wrote the Alchemical wedding, but from what kind of
background? We know that he was involved in the Fruchtbringende
Gesellschaft, (the fruit-bringing Society) which was founded by Prince
Ludwig von Anhalt."

A few sources of information for those who can manage auf deutsch:

Barthold, Friedrich Wilhelm. Geschichte der Fruchtbringenden
Gesellschaft; Sitten, Geschmacksbildung und schone Redekunste deutscher
Vornehmen vom Ende des XVI. bis uber die Mitte des XVII. Jahrhunderts.
Reprint. Hildesheim, G. Olms, 1969.

Bircher, Martin, ed. Die Fruchtbringende Gesellschaft : Quellen und
Dokumente in vier Facsim. Reprint of 1647-1668 ed. Banden. Deutsche
Barockliteratur. Munchen: Kosel, 1970- 1971.

Briefe der Fruchtbringenden Gesellschaft und Beilagen: die Zeit Herzog
Augusts von Sachsen-Weissenfels 1667-1680: mit dem Breslauer Schuldrama
"Actus von der Hochlobl. Fruchtbringenden Gesellschaft" (1670) und mit
den Registern der Mitglieder. Die Deutsche Akademie des 17. Jahrhunderts
Fruchtbringende Gesellschaft, Reihe I, Kritische Ausgabe der Briefe,
Beilagen und Akademiearbeiten. Abt. C, Halle. Tubingen: Niemeyer,1991.

Tom Willard

Subject: RC- Andreae
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:05:23 -0600
From: Paul Dupuy, Jr.

>>Andreae's 'Christianopolis' was published in 1619, and appears to predate
>>Bacon's 'New Atlantis'.

"In 1614 [Bacon] seems to have written 'The New Atlantis', his
far-seeing scientific utopian work, which did not get into print until
1626" ('Encyclopaedia Britannica', 1988). It appears that 'New Atlantis'
was written 'before' Andreae's 'Christianopolis' was published. The stories
are remarkably similar, though not so much as 'Atlantis' and John Heydon's
1662 'Holy Guide'. Frances Yates explains that,

"though the name Rose Cross is nowhere mentioned by Bacon in the
'New Atlantis', it is abundantly clear that he knew the Rose Cross fiction
and was adapting it to his own parable. New Atlantis was governed by R.C.
Brothers, invisibly travelling as 'merchants of light' in the outside world
from their invisible college or centre, now called Salomon's House, and
following the rules of the R.C. Fraternity, to heal the sick free of
charge, to wear no special dress. Moreover the 'cherubin's wings' seal the
scroll brought from New Atlantis, as they seal the 'Fama'. The island had
something angelical about it, rather than magical, and its official wore a
red cross in his turban" ('Rosicrucian Enlightenment' 127).

>>Was Andreae really the author of the 'Chymical
>>Wedding'? He does state this in his autobiography, I believe, but were there
>>other reasons for him so doing?

Yates says that in his autobiographical 'Vita ab ipso conscripta',
Andraea states he "made his first juvenile efforts as an author, in about
1602 and 1603. These efforts included ... a work called 'Chemical Wedding',
which he describes deprecatingly as a 'ludibrium', or a fiction, or a jest,
of little worth" (31).
In what year was the 'Vita' written and when was it published? Are
there any other contemporary textual references which name Andreae as the
author of the 'Wedding'?
Manly Hall reproduces a portrait of "Ioh Valentinvs Andreae" in his
'Secret Teachings of All Ages' (141). His only reference is "from a rare
print" -- does anyone know the source of this image? On the prior page, he
reproduces an image of the "Crest of Johann Valentin Andreae," which is
noted as coming "from 'Chymische Hochzeit'." Does this appear in the front
matter of the 1616 German first edition?

>They where conscious of the universal nature of the teachings that they
>revived together through studying the Philosophies, and they called the core
>of this universal teaching Rosencreutzerlich "Rosicrucian", to my idea this
>is why Andrea called the Alchemical wedding a ludibrium, because the order
>did not exist as a presumed material order but as a spiritual order, plus
>that the story of the Alchemical W. is a fully fictive comedy of course.

"[L]audatory references to plays, comedies, 'ludi', in the
'Christian Mythology' must be taken into account when studying Andreae's
remarks in the same work about the Fraternity of the Rosy Cross as a
'ludibrium', or a comedy. The section on 'Fraternitas' is certainly an
allusion to the R.C. Fraternity. He speaks of it as 'an admirable
Fraternity which plays comedies throughout Europe'. Remarks like this are
puzzling, and there are many others of a similar character scattered in
Andreae's numerous works -- he constantly talked of theatre and drama, the
subject fascinated him..." (Yates 142).

In the preface to 'Christianopolis', Andreae describes "a certain
fraternity, in my opinion a joke, but according to theologians a serious
matter ... promised ... the greatest and most unusual things, even those
things which men generally want, it added also the exceptional hope of the
correction of the present corrupted state of affairs, and ... the imitation
of the acts of Christ. What a confusion among the learned, what an unrest
and commotion of impostors and swindlers, it is entirely needless to
say.... [...]
"For we certainly would not commit such an injury against Christ
and His Word, as to prefer to learn the way of salvation ... from some
society (if there really is such a one), hazy, omniscient only in the eyes
of its own boastfulness, with a sewn shield for an emblem and marred with
many foolish ceremonies..." (Held tr., qtd. in Yates 145-6).

'Christianopolis' was published a year after Andreae's 1618
'Christian Mythology'. In this earlier work, Andreae has a character
(Philalethes) say:

"I have nothing whatever to do with it [the Fraternitas R.C.]. When
it came about, not a long time since, that some on the literary stage were
arranging a play scene of certain ingenious parties, I stood aside as one
who looks on, having regard to the fashion of the age which seizes with
avidity on new-fangled notions. As spectator, it was not without a certain
quality of zest that I beheld the battle of the books and marked
subsequently an entire change of actors. But seeing that at present the
theatre is filled with altercations, with a great clash of opinions, that
the fight is carried on by vague hints and malicious conjectures, I have
withdrawn myself utterly, that I may not be involved in so dubious and
slippery a concern" (144).

Yates asserts that this public derision was the means by which "the
pious mystical joker attempt[ed] to elude the furore and continue to preach
the Rosicrucian gospel but without the name. After all, as Shakespeare
remarks, 'What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet'"
(147).

Ahavah!

Paul Dupuy, Jr.

Subject: RC - Chymical Wedding - Dee crux
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 16:48:09 -0600
From: Paul Dupuy, Jr.

> it comes down to facts that can be
>proven, so that we all will gain a deeper insight in the involvements of
>this hidden group.
>
>In this sphere I am thinking when I try to approach the R.C. Society from
>the beginning of the 17th century.
>It is common fact for most of us that J.V. Andrea wrote the Alchemical
>wedding, but from what kind of background?

The "monas" symbol from John Dee's 1564 'Monas Hieroglyphica'
appears in the first edition of the 'Chemical Wedding', next to the verses
of the Wedding Invitation. Foxcroft's 1690 translation ('The Hermeticke
Romance, or, the Chymical Wedding') also has the "monas" symbol next to the
verses:

This day, this day, this, this
The Royal Wedding is.
Art thou thereto by Birth inclin'd,
And unto joy of God design'd,
Then may'st thou to the Mountain tend,
Whereon three 'stately Temples' stand,
And there see all from end to end. [etc]

The first appearance of the 'Confessio' is in a book titled 'A
Brief Consideration of the more Secret Philosophy written by Philip a
Gabella, a student of philosophy, now published for the first time together
with the Confession of the R.C. Fraternity', published in 1615. Yates
explains that

"The 'Consideratio brevis' is not a reproduction of the whole of
Dee's 'Monas', but it quotes verbally from the first thirteen theorems of
the work, interspersed with other matter. These are the theorems in which
Dee expounds the composition of his 'monas' sign... Strangely enough, he
never uses the word 'monas', and in passages where he is directly quoting
from Dee on the 'monas hieroglyphica', he substitutes 'stella' for 'monas'.
For 'Philip a Gabella' the monas becomes a star.... This interpretation
could, however, have a sanction from Dee's work, on the last page of which
a woman holding a star seems to be intended as a figure summing up the
whole work. [...]
"The [concluding] prayer is signed 'Philemon R.C., that is
'Philemon Rose Cross', and it is followed on the opposite page by the
preface to the reader, signed 'Frater R.C.', of the second Rosicrucian
manifesto, the 'Confessio', which follows immediately" ('Rosicrucian
Enlightenment' 46-7).

On the 'verso' of the 'Confessio' title page is printed the Latin
biblical quotation "God give thee of the dew of heaven and of the fatness
of the land" (45). This quote from Genesis appears on the title page of
Dee's 'Monas', which also has a Sun image giving off light ('crux') in
front of a pillar on the left and a thin Moon crescent in front of a pillar
on the right. Both drip dew ('ros') into a bowl at the base of each pillar.

Ahavah!

Paul Dupuy, Jr.

Subject: RC - Identifying a text
From: Adam McLean
Date: 18th Dec 1996

Can anyone identify the source for the text that is placed first in the 'Geheime figuren' the 18th century 'Secret Symbols of the Rosicrucians? It is probably taken from a 17th century work in Latin or German. Here is the first part of the text in the usual English translation.

Can anyone help?

Adam McLean

------------------

The Almighty, Alone-Wise, and Omniscient GOD and LORD hath given understanding to Man, above all other creatures, so that he may know his works and not leave them unexplored. Now since this Man, whom the All-wise GOD hath inspired thereto, hath this high and profound secret Work and the great secret of the ancient Water-Stone of the Wise, he must needs prove himself aright. If ever there is a natural thing on earth, it is the Preparation and the Magysterium of the Philosopher's Stone, natural and not of man's making, but wholly the work of Nature, for the Artist addeth nothing thereto. Nature alone directeth the growing, as doth every tiller of the soil with his fruits and plants; only he must be subtle in mind and have the grace of GOD, so that he may direct the same as the work becomes evident in the boiling and through successive time: namely, in the beginning there is the Subjectum, which one doth receive from Nature directly into the hand. Therein lieth hidden the Universal Tincture of all metals, animals, and plants. It is a rough Corpus. having neither the figure nor form of an animal or plant, but is in the beginning a rough, earthy, heavy, viscous, tough and nebulous substance on which Nature hath stopped: but when the enlightened man openeth these matters, investigateth them in Digestion, and with its thick foggy shadows with which it is surrounded...

Subject: RC - Identifying a text
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:28:25 -0700
From: Tom Willard

Related to Siebermacher's 'Wasserstein' ?

Tom Willard

Subject: RC - Fama and Confessio
From: Adam McLean
Date: 20 Dec 1996

The 'Fama' and 'Confessio' are the two key documents of Rosicrucian history.
The 'Fama' being publicly released in 1614 and the 'Confessio' in 1615. It is
usual to think of these as being written by the same individual or group, but I
wonder if this is actually so, as there are so many stylist differences between
the two pieces.

In particular the 'Fama' is a positive, welcoming document. Its tone is inclusive and
does not raile tediously against the Catholics. It reaches out to the reader, wanting
them to participate in the great adventure -

"And although at this time we make no mention either of our names, or meetings,
yet nevertheless every ones opinion shal assuredly come to our hands, in what
language so ever it be; nor any body shal fail, who so gives but his name to
speak with some of us, either by word of mouth, or else if there be some lett
in writing. And this we say for a truth, That whosoever shall earnestly, and from
his heart, bear affection unto us, it shal be beneficial to him in goods, body and
soul; but he that is false-hearted, or onely greedy of riches, the same first of all
shal not be able in any manner of wise to hurt us, but bring him to utter ruine
and destruction." - Fama

The 'Confessio' is more darkly negative, somewhat pessimistic, and seems to
take a delight in rejecting and excluding people.

"...although we might enrich the whole world, and endue them with learning, and
might release it from innumerable miseries, yet shall we never be manifested
and made known unto any, without the especial pleasure of God; yea,
it shall be so far from him whosoever thinks to get the benefit and be partaker
of our riches and knowledge, without and against the will of God, that he shall
sooner lose his life in seeking and searching for us, than to find us, and attain
to come to the wished happiness of the Fraternity of the Rosy Cross."

I wonder if these documents were written by the same hand. They were certainly
not written with the same intention. Although I have no additional evidence to
back this hypothesis, I sometimes wonder if the publishing of the 'Fama', which
produced such a stir and positive response, that the group who had created the
Rosicrucian myth were so shocked that they wished to put a lid on it, and try
to dampen the enthusiastic interest they had aroused in this 'brotherhood'.

By publishing the 'Confessio', perhaps written by another hand, and in a
different style, they sought to dissipate interest in the 'brotherhood' by making
them appear less welcoming and attractive. In the space of a year they move
from the position that everyone's message will be answered, to the austere
and extremely hard position that the Brotherhood will only be known to those
who have God's blessing, that is, one must blame oneself for being so imperfect
in the eyes of God as not to be receivevd into the fraternity - a harsh judgement
indeed. Can this be the same voice that wrote with joy and openness in the
Fama?

Adam McLean

Subject: RC - Fama and Confessio
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 23:19:48 +0100 (MET)
From: Douwe

>From: Adam McLean
>
>The 'Fama' and 'Confessio' are the two key documents of Rosicrucian history.
>The 'Fama' being publicly released in 1614 and the 'Confessio' in 1615. It
>is usual to think of these as being written by the same individual or group,
>but I wonder if this is actually so, as there are so many stylist
>differences between the two pieces.
>In particular the 'Fama' is a positive, welcoming document. Its tone is
>inclusive and
>does not raile tediously against the Catholics. It reaches out to the
>reader, wanting them to participate in the great adventure -
>
>"And although at this time we make no mention either of our names, or meetings,
>yet nevertheless every ones opinion shal assuredly come to our hands, in what
>language so ever it be; nor any body shal fail, who so gives but his name to
>speak with some of us, either by word of mouth, or else if there be some lett
>in writing. And this we say for a truth, That whosoever shall earnestly, and
>from his heart, bear affection unto us, it shal be beneficial to him in goods,
>body and soul; but he that is false-hearted, or onely greedy of riches, the
>same first of all shal not be able in any manner of wise to hurt us, but bring
>him to utter ruine and destruction." - Fama

To me this part says the same as the following part from the 'Confessio',
but only in different words.
If there is a true and honest affection to the Order then the order will
manifest itself, in the sense of 'Alike will attract Alike', or in the sense
of the Great magnet of the alchemists, as it can be observed in a plate of
the Secret Symbols, where the hand of God issues from a cloud, emitting dew
over the prime matter, so inducing it with His Fullness, while the
Magnet-stone is held in the same hand, to attract the "Iron hard men on the
road of Truth", as it says.
This is an universal law, but as Mr McLean adds to this from the Confessio:

>"...although we might enrich the whole world, and endue them with learning, and
>might release it from innumerable miseries, yet shall we never be manifested
>and made known unto any, without the especial pleasure of God;

This can be directly compared to the 'Fama', where you just have read:

>but he that is false-hearted, or only greedy of riches, the same first of all
>shal not be able in any manner of wise to hurt us, but bring him to utter ruine
>and destruction.)

In a sense the same thing is said but only in stronger wording, of which a
plausible reason may be found at the end of this posting.

>yea, it shall be so far from him whosoever thinks to get the benefit and
>be partaker of our riches and knowledge, without and against the will of
>God, that he shall sooner lose his life in seeking and searching for us,
>than to find us, and attain to come to the wished happiness of the Fraternity
>of the Rosy Cross."

I think that it is only a matter of interpretation here.
If you observe it in the sense that 'following the law of God you will find
the Spiritual field of the Brotherhood, but then only when you only follow
the will of God', then these two pieces of text are connected to each
other in this manner, then they start to speak the same language all the
way through, but only from a more dramatic standpoint in the case of the
'Confessio'.

>I wonder if these documents were written by the same hand. They were certainly
>not written with the same intention. Although I have no additional evidence to
>back this hypothesis, I sometimes wonder if the publishing of the 'Fama', which
>produced such a stir and positive response, that the group who had created
>the Rosicrucian myth were so shocked that they wished to put a lid on it,
>and try to dampen the enthusiastic interest they had aroused in this 'brotherhood'.
>
>By publishing the 'Confessio', perhaps written by another hand, and in a
>different style, they sought to dissipate interest in the 'brotherhood' by
>making them appear less welcoming and attractive. In the space of a year they move
>from the position that everyone's message will be answered, to the austere
>and extremely hard position that the Brotherhood will only be known to those
>who have God's blessing, that is, one must blame oneself for being so imperfect
>in the eyes of God as not to be receivevd into the fraternity - a harsh
>judgement indeed. Can this be the same voice that wrote with joy and openness in the
>Fama?

To me it can be.

Both these works have been published at the same publisher (at Wessell in
Kassel) which brings these two works closer to each other again. (While the
'Chymische Hochzeit C.R.' appeared in Strassbourgh at Zetzner).
It doesn't rule anything out of course, but if you look at the group
surrounding Tobias Hess you still might come to the conclusion that it is
the same group speaking but with a different person as spokesman, or a
conscious shift to a more apocalyptical tone of voice in the same writer of
both works, but I'll come back to this later on.

It also might be wise to look at what the intention of these books might
have been.

I personally see the 'Fama' as a calling out to the Learned and Heads of
Europe (In this I don't see any reason to believe that the writer meant the
Doctors and Kings of that time) , while I see the 'Confessio' as a prodding
stick to get people on the move in a spiritual direction.

The 'Confessio' tells that Jehovah is rushing on his return, that a cyclus
is coming at an end, of which they see the proof connected to the
appearance of the Serpentarius and the Cygnus in 1604, which were
seen as the signs of a short spiritual boost before the spiritual flame
would fade. After this boost there would be a period of spiritual darkness.
In my eyes this prophesy has come out, if you look at the spiritual high
tide of that time, compared with the spiritual significance of about 1660,
untill the end of the last century.
You may conclude that it was a particularly good period for spiritual
advancement, as I guess that it is now at this moment.
The signs of this leave the scene as the people living from, let us say,
1530 to 1625, died.
On spiritual front there was no substantial renewal after this until the
rise of Theosophy at the end of the last century, which has been the
foundation for all the spiritual movements of nowadays.

Further: some parts of the 'Confessio' are beaming with joy when
talking about giving many treasures are given so freely, and eternal
life, etc. It just makes a strong distinction between those following the
Will of God and those who don't, warning for the seduction of falseness
in this world, like the false Alchemy, the practices of the Roman
Catholic Church, etc.

For the historically minded people it might be also a thought to consider
that the 'Fama' was published in 1614, which was the year that also Tobias
Hess died.
In the same year Andreae married and became a Lutheran pastor.
This all might have been enough change in a man's life to come to a totally
different perspective of things, while Andreae was 28 at that time, which
is a very flexible age of course.
The 'Confessio' has been published in 1615, which was after these three
big changes in the life of Andreae, so that if he wrote this work that he might
sound more bitter and more apocalyptic because of the changes in his
personal life.
This might also connect to the thesis of Mr. McLean stating that "the
'Confessio' of the order might be a way of reducing the attention of the
hype", because Andreae might have felt that it was all too much for him
without the spiritual motor of Tobias Hess.
I personally wouln't go for this option because, if you want to kill a hype,
then it is better to be silent about it, then to give it renewed attention.
Further I believe that Andreae didn't think of any disconnection of this
order because he otherwise he wouldn't have got the Alchemical Wedding
published in 1616.

This all is a bit loosely written.
Because I have too many other time consuming things that occupy me
for the moment, I don't have the time to make my contribution more
constructed than that it is, so I just only wrote all that fell in mind.
Further I hope that the reactions will follow, so that we can continue on
one or all the different facets of this extremely interesting topic.

Best regards,

Douwe.

Subject: RC - Added Rosicrucian material to Alchemy Web site
From: Adam McLean
Date: 30th Dec 1996

I have just placed Thomas Vaughan's 'Preface to the Fama and Confessio'
onto the Alchemy web site, and also chapters 1-9 of Michael Maier's 'Laws
of the Fraternity of the Rosie Cross'.

Perhaps people of this e-mail list can read through them and give us their
reactions to or analysis of this material.

Adam McLean

P.S. I have also begun to place the 'Secret Symbols of the Rosicrucians' onto
the Web site. It will take some months to complete, but I have made a start.