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January 1997.

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Subject: INNER - Kabbalah
From: "Zeljko Bistrovic"
Date: 2 Jan 1997 08:29:22 -0000

Shalom!

I have my own interests, and one of these is the study of Kabbalah. I made some
analogies between Kabbalah and Tarot, and I notice that has been done many times
before. But there are some diferences. I am interested to make contact with
anyone who is in love in Kabbalah.

This "Inner symposium" is like children exchange of pictures of famous
actors or some else idols. But this is fun. I, also, have collection of different
Kabbalah images, most of the "tree of life". I will show you some.

I am interested about Symbols, and I have question about the picture of the
lion on the frontispiece from Beroalde de Verville's "Le Tableau des riches inventions".


Gratefuly your Aharon

Subject: INNER - Thalia the muse

Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 08:37:15 -0800
From: Belle Hall

Thank you [Donald Minson] for the info [about Thalia].

I also just purchased a book by Sallie Nichols
JUNG and TAROT An archetypal Journey which I am only beginning to peruse.
Don't know how scholarly it is, but that's never stopped me before.As I
looked over my dream journal I saw that my notes about Thalia (from the
dictionary!) included Gk.thallein/to flourish and thallium at.wt. 81(my
birthday)and thallus(to sprout) a stemless, rootless leafless plant of the
Thallophyte subkingdom which includes algae, fungi, and bacteria. Again
gnosis implies CONNECTION but I cannot get it. OOps I see bitty notes
down the side.. thalamus/thalamos inner chamber possibly akin to round
building with a conical roof and thalamus is gray matter in cerebral
cortex that relays sensory stimuli. Now somebody please explain how the
Greeks and brains and taxonomies are "accidentally" threaded together
through centuries. Much less how they ended up in my dreams??? As Thalia
is also one of the Graces, perhaps it would be best if I gave Grace where
it is due and counted my many Blessings. No wonder alchemists' works are
steeped in enigmas. They must have confronted quite a few as they
operated. Gosh.

Peace,

Belle. And TRULY my thanks to all.

Now yesterday I was resting and had a vision of a HUGE white cobra rising
up and then it turned into a diamond. Not a rhombus thing , but a jewel.
It was a side view of a big one with mant facets. I read all about
serpents and wisdom and evil da da da..Still this was definitely a cobra
and white? Please forgive my rudeness for throwing in another
topic. Snakes and Jung go together; snakes and alchemy ...it wasn't an
ouroboros?
Peace.

Subject: INNER - Kabbalah
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 08:06:57 -0600
From: Howard Higgins

Aharon,

> I am interested to make contact with anyone who is in love in Kabbalah.

I am also studying the Kaballah, have done so for several years now.
Would be interested in other's opinions on it.

> I, also, have collection of different Kabbalah images, most of the
> "tree of life". I will show you some.

Would like to see some of them.

> Gratefuly your Aharon

Subject: INNER - Kabbalah
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 11:17:35 -0500
From: Gilbert Arnold

I love Kaballah. Can you describe the picture of the
lion on the frontispiece from Beroalde de Verville's "Le Tableau des
riches inventions" ?

Blessings,

Gilbert

Subject: INNER - Kabbalah and Alchemy
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 20:49:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz

>From: Zeljko Bistrovic
>I am interested to make contact with
>anyone who is in love in Kabbalah.

Perhaps we could discuss the washing of lepers ie. the purifying of Naaman.
It is an image that appears in Aesch Mezareph.

"Learn therefore to purify Naaman, coming from the North, out of Syria, and
acknowledge the power of Jordan" (chpt.1)

"Naaman the Syrian, the General of the Army of the King of Aram....by whom
is Allegorically to be understood the Matter of the Metallic Medicine, to be
purified Seven times in Jordan" (chpt.6)

"And that thou mayest the better understand this Matter, take the Lesser
Number of this word Naaman, which is 21, this is equal to the Number of the
Name of Kether, which is Ehejeh." (chpt.6)


This image also appears in Michael Maier's Atalanta Fugiens (1617)

"Emblem 13:
The ore of the philosophers is dropsical and wants to be washed seven times
in the river, just as Naaman, the leper, washed in the Jordan.

"Epigram 13:
The sick ore of the Wise is entirely swollen by dropsy,
And therefore it yearns for the benefiting waters.
Just as Naaman expelled the traces of leprosy in the Jordan,
It is washed by its waters three and four times:
So throw your body into the sweet water
And soon that will bring the strength of health in cases of disease."

[http://www.levity.com/alchemy/atalantamusic13.html]

Any thoughts or reflections on this materials?

Richard Patz

Subject: INNER - Lumen de Lumine
From: Alberto I. LaCava
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 03:27:43 +0000

Dear Inner Alchemy Forum:

I have put the first part of Eugenius Philaletes' allegory , 'Lumen de
Lumine' into Spanish and, with a group of friends of a modern esoteric
organization we have cast it into a brief theatre play, followed by the
discussion of its symbols. We will be playing it for different Spanish
Speaking esoteric groups across the New York Metropolitan area in the next
few weeks. Of course, the experience has been wonderful for the "players"
and myself, since it has allowed us to dwell in the symbolism of the
allegory. We found its energy quite lively and ready to reveal more Inner
Alchemy meanings and subtleties as time goes by.

I would like to hear your points of view on the symbolism of the Altar that
Talia and Eugenius meet, where the dead trunk of a tree and a green and
white serpent are in the altar of the offertory. The altar has the
inscription "To the blessed Gods of the underground", and in Waite's edited
edition, is followed by the initials N. L. (Naturae Lapis ?) and the Greek
letters Tau, Alpha, Nu and Phi (all lower case). I cannot figure the
meaning of these letters and my Greek is quite primitive to say the least...

I will be "moderating" a discussion on the symbolism of the "play" in the
next few weeks and I will be writing down what the different groups of
students come out with. I will not be surprised if in the beginning I will
not get a loud silence....

I will appreciate your comments. The allegory "Lumen de Lumine" by Eugenius
Philaletes (Thomas Vaugham, yes the great-grandfather of the mythical Diana
Vaugham of the Leo Taxill big joke) is in the library of the Alchemy page in
the web. I also have, reprinted by Kessinger in the USA, the "Works of
Thomas Vaugham" edited by Arthur E. Waite, Kessinger Publishing Co. (also a
page in the web).

Alberto I. LaCava

Subject: INNER - Nazari's Mule
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 23:43:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz

>From: Donald Minson
>Does anyone have any comments on the fourth image??
>I've read that there is a definite God Image (gnostic and otherwise)
>connected to the ass, and that the ape/monkey image is connected
>as the shadow of god, but I'm particularly interested in the circulation
>of the ass, and any relations to the alchemical circulatio.

Well, King Midas had the ears of an ass. This was after the touch of gold
story. According to Ovid, in Metamorphoses (Book XI), Midas had retired to
the country to worship Pan. One day, he overheard a musical contest between
Pan, on the flute and Apollo, on the lyre. The judge of this contest, the
mountain-god Tmolus, ruled in Apollo's favour but Midas disagreed with the
ruling. As punishment, he was given the ears of an ass.

Interesting slant though, the ass was a beast sacred to Dionysus. Walter
Otto, in "Dionysus, Myth and Cult" shows a drinking cup with an image of
Dionysus riding in a boat with the bow shaped like an ass's head (plate 11).
The animal is also credited with teaching mankind how to prune grape vines.

It was Dionysus that gave Midas the touch of gold. And it was Dionysus that
told Midas to wash in the river Pactolus near Mount Tmolus to rid himself of
the curse. The result was that the river was invested with the golden touch.

There, as the bubling tide pours forth amain,
To plunge his body in, and wash away the stain.
The king instructed to the fount retires,
But with the golden charm the stream inspires:
For while this quality the man forsakes,
An equal pow'r the limpid water takes;
Informs with veins of gold the neighb'ring land,
And glides along a bed of golden sand.

(Ovid. Met. Bk. XI, Garth trans.)


Richard Patz

Subject: INNER - Kabbalah
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 00:33:27 -0800
From: Donald Minson

Zeljko,

I, too, am very interested in Kabbalah, yet I know little of it... I am
interested in finding out more, especially of what interests you... I
have only begun to read of the tree of life, sefirot, YHWH, etc. I have
come across many references to the Kabbalah in the works of Jung, Joseph
Campbell, Aleister Crowley's Tarot Deck (The Book of Thoth), and in
Alchemy and Rosicrucian texts... there are some references in The
Alchemical Virtual Library that are interesting... I would love to begin
a Kabbalistic exchange with some suggested reading from you, I haven't
looked for it yet, but I understand the ZOHAR is a good source...

> This "Inner symposium" is like children exchange of pictures of famous
> actors or some else idols. But this is fun.

...It is childLIKE (which I admire--the sense of awe and wonder, and
eagerness to learn, etc.) but, thankfully, not childISH... I, too, find
it fun, and also exciting to find others so enthusiastic and willing to
share...


> I, also, have collection of different
> Kabbalah images, most of the "tree of life". I will show you some.

I'm very interested in the collecting of images, my computer has
facilitated this greatly. Jung centers his work on the interpretation of
them and his elucidations of the alchemical symbology has been paramount
to my understanding... I find them very involving, stimulating, and
perfect for contemplation (alchemical and otherwise)... very often so
much more can (and should) be said with emblem, symbol, and
image...after all the unconscious employs it as its communicative
device...

> I am interested about Symbols, and I have question about the picture of the
> lion on the frontispiece from Beroalde de Verville's "Le Tableau des riches
> inventions".

I have this frontispiece as my wallpaper currently... there is
information concerning the cutting off of the lion's paws in Jung's
Alchemical Studies (p.329-30.) Its taken from the section entitled "the
torture motif". The motif occurs in alchemy as the cutting off of human
hands and the paws of the lion... Basically it represents a difficult
change ,but necessary for transformation... especially the stage
called: Nigredo-- the long dark night of the soul... depression, etc.
there was also some information in the letter: Mon, 30 Dec 1996
from Richard Roberts


Respectfully,

DMINSON

Subject: INNER - Beroalde de Verville's lion
Date: Thu, 02 Jan 1997 21:58:18 -0800
From: Richard Roberts

>From: Zeljko Bistrovic
>I am interested about Symbols, and I have question about the picture of the
>lion on the frontispiece from Beroalde de Verville's "Le Tableau des riches
>inventions".


What is your question about the red lion?

Best regards,

Richard Roberts

Subject: INNER - Hermaphrodite/Homunculus
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 06:45 PST
From: Diane

(I wanted to pitch in here to relieve Belle of the "only female" experience!)

My understanding of the Hermaphrodite is that it is not made from
us, but we of it. I have been taught that as entities we were neither
female or male and in the desire to experience the form of matter we
created bodies of both polarities to descend into. After that, we were
separated into gender and now the challenge is to pull ourselves back
together through levels of consciousness.

The homunculous, from how I understand it, is the test of an
alchemist, to burnish him/her into another level of understanding,
that of creation. As Richard pointed out, it ends up displaying and
acting out all the qualities of ourselves that we are unaware of and the
final part of the test is to understand that we created it and can uncreate
it, but that can only be accomplished once we recognize the homunculus
to be ourselves. A great fictional account of this burnishing is in The Red
Lion by Maria Orsi.

Subject: INNER - Lumen de Lumine
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:40:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Jose R. Mediavilla


> From: Alberto I. LaCava
> I have put the first part of Eugenius Philaletes' allegory , 'Lumen de
> Lumine' into Spanish and, with a group of friends of a modern esoteric
> organization we have cast it into a brief theatre play, followed by the
> discussion of its symbols. We will be playing it for different Spanish
> Speaking esoteric groups across the New York Metropolitan area in the next
> few weeks.

Not to overlook the content of the rest of the message, which at present I
am not in a position to address (although I know the texts you mention),
but I am immediately most interested in your allusion to Spanish-speaking
esoteric groups in the NYC area. I am both a native speaker and a native
New Yorker, and will be moving back there later this year, so I am very
interested in finding out about groups such as you have described. Would
you by chance be able to relay some of the dates of your performance?

Jose

Subject: INNER - Kabbalah
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 10:54:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Jose R. Mediavilla

> From: Donald Minson
> I, too, am very interested in Kabbalah, yet I know little of it... I am
> interested in finding out more, especially of what interests you... I
> have only begun to read of the tree of life, sefirot, YHWH, etc. I have
> come across many references to the Kabbalah in the works of Jung, Joseph
> Campbell, Aleister Crowley's Tarot Deck (The Book of Thoth), and in
> Alchemy and Rosicrucian texts... there are some references in The
> Alchemical Virtual Library that are interesting... I would love to begin
> a Kabbalistic exchange with some suggested reading from you, I haven't
> looked for it yet, but I understand the ZOHAR is a good source...

The Zohar is probably one of the earliest kabbalistic texts (following the
Sefer Yetzirah), and hails from around 12th-13th century Spain. It is
obscure to say the least, but maybe that refelects my own limitations.
For those of us that may not already know, it is worthwhile and fair to
mention that the writings of Dr. Paul Foster Case, currently stewarded by
Builders of the Adytum, contain a wealth of information on Kabbalah and
Tarot in more or less modern terminology (but not scholarly). Most
notably as concerns this list, the last series of lessons is entitled
"Spiritual Alchemy", and consists of his own interpretation of alchemy via
extensive use of gematria (the kabbalistic method of numerological
correspondences). Unfortunately, to my knowledge, these lessons are only
available through membership in BOTA, with the usual attendant obligations
to not divulge their contents directly, etc., but I thought it would be
fair just the same to point them out as a potentially rewarding source.

Jose

Subject: INNER - Beroalde de Verville's lion
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 17:04:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz


Zeljko Bistrovic wrote:
>I am interested about Symbols, and I have question about the picture of the
>lion on the frontispiece from Beroalde de Verville's "Le Tableau des riches
>inventions".

Each Hebrew letter is a letter, a number, and a word. So the word LION
(Arjeh) can be spelt:
A, aleph (1, ox) + R, resh (200, head) + Y, yod (10, hand) + H, heh (5, window)

If we cut off the hands like Beroalde de Verville, (remove the yod) , we get
A-R-H, the verb "to pluck" as in Psalm 80 v 12 (13):
"Why have you broken down its walls,
so that all who pass by pick its grapes?"

We are not killing the lion - his head (resh) is still intact - just cutting
off his hands. We are not pulling out the grape vine, just plucking a few
grapes. We can't get wine without plucking a few grapes.

A-R-H adds to 206. So does R-A-H = "to see". Same letters too. Sometimes we
can't see something until we stop our activity (hands).

That is certainly what meditation is about: resting from physical activity
and letting the constant chatter of the habitual mind slow down and stop.
Then we can operate from an experience of our own silence and maybe get a
glimpse of just how transitory the thoughts and attitudes we have really are.

It can be a painful experience, because many of those attitudes we don't
just take for granted, they are often the underpinnings of how we view the
world. For example, I think many of us might see the human species as the
sole author of history - the prime mover, as it were. This is a learned
point of view that arises from our modern culture. We would have likely
learned a different point of view in medieval Europe or pre-columbian
Mesoamerica. We are a product of our times.

Entertaining the possibility that framework we have to make sense of the
world may in fact be smoke is quite terrifying. But if part of what we are
doing as alchemists is trying to trace substance back to the First Matter,
do we not have to at least consider that when Thomas Vaughan said "when
spirits descend to the elemental matrix and reside in her kingdom they are
blurred with the original leprosy of the matter" this also applies to us.

Richard Patz

Subject: INNER - Kabbalah
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 00:22:41 -0800
From: Donald Minson

Jose,
Thanks for the info! I have received info from BOTA and with my student
budget can't afford the fee... though it is little it is regular and that is a
demand...I knew nothing of the Zohar's availability but will seek where
and what I can...again, I appreciate your suggestions...

DMINSON

Subject: INNER - Nazari's Mule
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 00:31:35 -0800
From: Donald Minson

Richard,

Thanks for the additional info ...I had forgotten the connection to
Dionysis... I recall now that in some versions of the Dionysis myth he
was turned into an ass and in some he was delivered by an ass to redeem
himself the one and only time he embibed too much of the precious stuff
of grapes...your info is always illuminating, thanks... I'll try to
incorporate these things in my contemplation of the woodcut image...

Respectfully,

DMINSON

Subject: INNER - Thalia the muse
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 01:07:40 -0800
From: Donald Minson

> From: Belle Hall
> > > Now yesterday I was resting and had a vision of a HUGE white cobra rising
> up and then it turned into a diamond. Not a rhombus thing , but a jewel.
> It was a side view of a big one with mant facets. I read all about
> serpents and wisdom and evil da da da..Still this was definitely a cobra
> and white? Please forgive my rudeness for throwing in another
> topic. Snakes and Jung go together; snakes and alchemy ...it wasn't an
> ouroboros?



Belle,

There is much to be said of the snake, of its relationship to alchemy,
white, and the diamond...here's a little...

First, the diamond. Jung in his book 'Mysterium Coniunctionis' (somewhere
in the first 30 or 40 pages) talks about the "orphan stone" and refers
to our calling the diamond a "solitaire" and equates solitaire to orphan
as appropriate ... so your diamond significantly refers to the
Philosopher's stone or Lapis in at least one specific respect... that the
snake turns into the stone is not surprising in that mercurius is often
represented as a snake in the retort which ultimately turns into the
stone... the snake has many qualities of which you are aware. Some I find
interesting in the alchemical respect are that the snake is
chthonic--arising from the unconscious and that it is feminine in its
corporeal form and masculine in spirit which fits well with the
hermaphroditic image of Mercurius and the stone... that it is white may
be representative of the virginal quality of the prima materia or the
ultimate positive quality of white and good that result from an
initially dark experience white is also significantly innocent or
innocence which is an "initial" quality... that the snake is specifically
a cobra and large I would refer you to the function the cobra plays in
the Vishnu myth and the corresponding images... to the best of my
recollection it is a protective figure and there are many "hooded"
snakes or one snake with many heads above the head of Vishnu...there
are also other corresponding functions within the eastern philosophies
surrounding the cobra...perhaps your image is an amalgamation of the
figures from east and west...also, in Robert Johnson's "Inner Work" he
tells of his images involving a large snake (cobra?) and relays some of
its personal/archetypal significance with the additional story that when
he told Jung of his experience Jung gave him specific "instructions"
regarding the image and that Johnson should live this way or that way
etc...hope that helps...

Respectfully,

DMINSON

Subject: INNER - Alchemy Play 'Lumen de Lumine'
From: Alberto I. LaCava
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 14:20:46 +0000

In reference to the question of Jose R. Mediavilla:

The play ('Lumen de Lumine' in Spanish) will be performed tonight, Saturday
January 4, at the "Centro Cultural Rosacruz AMORC Elizabeth", at 9:00 PM.
The Center is located at 123 Chesnut St. (Between 1st and 2nd Ave), Roselle,
New Jersey, USA. For directions call Pablo Castillo (908) 826 5283 or
Humberto Gracia (908) 381 0862.

The next time the play will be played on January 26 in the early afternoon
at the "Centro Cultural Rosacruz New York", which is located in Brooklyn,
NY. For that event you have time to contact me at AlbertoLaCava@worldnet.att.net

Both plays are open to the public and are free, with exception of some
donation that will be requested at some stage.

For Spanish esoteric activities in the New York Area (Rosicrucian, Templar,
etc.) you may contact me directly at my e-mail, since such information is
outside the scope of this Alchemy list.

Alberto I. LaCava


Subject: INNER - Thalia the muse/ cobra symbol
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 08:57:16 -0800
From: Belle Hall

Thank you to DMINSON and Diane Munoz,

Interestingly enough my personal path continues to blend the East and the
West. Frequently I have the dilemna of which road fork to choose. Usually
I agonize all for naught as either path leads back to the beginning much
as the ouroborous. For me the cobra and the hermaphrodite do seem to be
tied. And both of you are profound in passing on just the right
ingredient to "the recipe".

Using my sense of words the cobra is also a hamadryad. The king cobra is
Ophiophagus hannah; hannah is Hebrew for graciousness. Hamadryad has dual
meaning. In Gk.& Rm. mythology it is a wood nymph. hama= together and
drus=tree giving the sense of one together with the tree since the spirit
only lives as long as her tree. Curiosity wiil lead me to Johnson as will
Jung's specific "instructions."

The hermaphrodite image of one separating into the two genders brings
images again of the East in Shakti and Shiva. If memory serves me, they
were "one" at some point. And also a part of the Vishnu mythology. There
seems to be a focusing now on the union idea so often referred to in
alchemy and Jung's journey to our INNER. For me it has been problematic
because of the many unions and on the many levels of consciousness that
they occur. However, problems and their"solving/dissolving" are essential
in this process as each of us is acutely aware. Grateful am I for your
instruction.

Peace,

Belle

Subject: INNER - Alchemy Play 'Lumen de Lumine'
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 22:49:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Thomas S Willard

I would like very much to see a description of the play, perhaps with
stage directions.

Tom Willard

Subject: INNER - Maria Orsi's 'Red Lion'
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 15:56:12 -0500
From: CPHG

Is 'The Red Lion' still in print and, if so, where can one obtain a copy?

Subject: INNER - Kabalah and Text Availability
From: Alberto I. LaCava
Date: Sun, 5 Jan 1997 14:46:48 +0000

To Donald Minson:

Although the complete body of the Zohar has not been translated into
English, a good fraction is made available in the Simon and Sperling edition
of the Zohar, in 5 volumes. Another bit was translated from an earlier Latin
translation by Mathers and can be purchased with the title "The Kabbalah
Unveiled". It contains the books of the large and the small assembly, which
were not included in the Simon and Sperling translation.

I purchased my copy of the Zohar from the "Research Center of Kabbalah", a
proper Jewish Research Center and school, headed by Rabbi Phillip Berg
(with lineage that comes directly from The Ari, Luria). They also have other
Kabbalah material, of course, and do not mind too much if you are not
Jewish. You may contact them in New York at 718 805 9122 and in L.A. at 213
475 7079

I hope this helps you locate good source material on the Kabbalah.

Alberto I. LaCava

Subject: INNER - Maria Orsi's 'Red Lion'
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 09:39:22 +0000
From: Diane Munoz

> Is 'The Red Lion' still in print and, if so, where can one obtain a copy?

I understand that you can obtain it from Ramtha's School of
Enlightenment. It seems to me I heard another printing was being made
and shipped there. You can contact Greg @ramtha.com or see their website
at http://www.ramtha.com.

Subject: INNER - Emerald Table of Hermes/thelema
Date: Sun, 05 Jan 1997 15:54:17 -1000
From: Gary Whiting

I am interested in discussing alchemical parallels with the
Tabula Smaragdina (first given in the Latin by Julius Ruska,
Heidelberg, 1926), particularly the primary concept of thelema. This
concept appears to have much in common with the variety of
transformative properties that abound in alchemical imagery, though is
particularly well conceived in this major piece of literature.

Thelema is "the one thing" from which all things arose, and is
said to be the agent of growth that adapts existence to essence. "It
is the father of all works of wonder throughout the whole world" (TS
5). In Greek poetic language it is thelemos, meaning "voluntary" or
"spontaneous", and in the New Testement as thelesis signifies "desire"
and "will". Supportive literature (Corpus Hermeticum) relates it to
an agent that "in the manner of a spiral" acts between earth and
heaven. It appears that if one separates thelema (this immanent
desire in the depths of matter) from its material encasement, "it doth
ascend from earth to heaven, and again it doth descend to earth, and
uniteth in itself the force from things superior and things inferior"
(Tabula Smaragdina, 8). As mentioned, I am interested in exploring
other alchemical "associations" that can help me have a more vivid
sense of this elemental reality.

Thank much,

Gary

Subject: INNER - Kabalah and Text Availability
Date: 7 Jan 1997 07:54:17 -0000
From: Zeljko Bistrovic

Shalom!

If we talking about Kabbalah, there is one text with great meaning: Torah.
When we study Torah, we can study other literature like Sepher Yetzirah,
Sepher Zohar, Sepher ha-Bahir etc.

One man in this century is very informed in judaistic mystic:
Gerschom Scholem.

with regards

Aharon

Subject: INNER - Kabalah and Text Availability
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 11:38:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Jose

Aharon,

When you refer to Torah, what time-frame/specific text(s) are you
referring to, i.e. do you consider Qabalah to be present from the outset,
rather than a product of the middle ages as is often stated? (I will
henceforth use the spelling 'Qabalah', as someone has pointed out that it
is phonetically more "correct" given the usual transliteration of the
letter QVPh--although I suppose it would be most correct to spell it QBLH;
but I am speaking only for myself...)

As Adam sets forth in the inaugurating message for this list, we should
attempt to stay as close as possible within the subject of "alchemy".
While most of us obviously consider alchemy to cover a broader range than
the Near Eastern/European art of the transmutation of metals, still, we
seem all of a sudden to be discussing Qabalah directly to the apparent
exclusion of alchemy.

Therefore, in order to try and steer both streams together, I would like
to raise an issue which has been on my mind for some time: does anyone
think that there are elements of alchemical allegory in the Book of Exodus?

Jose

Subject: INNER - The Kabbalah and Exodus
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 18:25:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Mackie Blanton

Jose, would you please clarify one or two points in your
recent query to Jose?

First, regarding the Qabbalah, what exactly do you mean by
"present from the outset"--from the outset of what? Judaism? Alchemy?
The beginning of time?

Secondly, my experience tells me that when someone frames a
question the way you have--"Does anyone think there are elements of
alchemical allegory in...Exodus"--that person's question is really an
affirmation and not a question. SoI am supposing that you do, indeed,
believe Exodus to contain alchemical allegory. Would you, therefore,
please give an exact example or two of what you mean. After all, the
question at hand is yours, not anyone else's at this moment.

If you actually can't give any examples from Exodus, perhaps you
would explain what exactly drives you intuitively to pose the question
in the first place.

Mackie Blanton

Subject: INNER - The Kabbalah and Exodus
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 1997 19:32:51 -0800
From: Belle Hall

Dear Jose,

Yes! And I think Exodus would be an excellent place to begin. In
literature classes sometimes it is nice to have a focus. For
example, Women's works prior to 1900 or Literature of the supernatural
since WWI.. whatever? In the process you learn the literature, the
historical period as well as content and application to life. Maybe this
could be Alchemy and Qabalah as it pertains to the Book of Exodus?? Maybe
I have oversimplified again. I do feel that it is difficult to devotedly
study alchemy without having some working knowledge of Qabalah. It seems
to be a little different turn on similar material. But definitely
CONNECTED.

How then is it woven into the warp of the INNER fabric as a whole? Since
Exodus includes Christianity and Judaism,does it exclude Eastern thought
and/or other religions and cultures to which sensitivity should be shown?
Or would it be discussed as "a piece of literature"? I do not feel one way or the other-just asking???

Respectfully,

Belle

Subject: INNER - Kabalah and Text Availability
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 00:03:05 -0800
From: Donald Minson

I found a web address containing the Sefer Yetzirah with a commentary
by Gerschom Scholem if any one is interested...

http://www.butterfly.net:80/neoism/squares/sefer.html

Respectfully,

DMINSON

Subject: INNER - Kabalah and Text Availability
Date: 8 Jan 1997 08:07:05 -0000
From: Zeljko Bistrovic

>When you refer to Torah, what time-frame/specific text(s) are you
>referring to, i.e. do you consider Qabalah to be present from the outset,
>rather than a product of the middle ages as is often stated?

Dear Jose,

Qabalah is very old discipline which teaches us more than we can
learn, older than middle age in Europe. Just read few books, first Sepher
Yetzirah.

>As Adam sets forth in the inaugurating message for this list, we should
>attempt to stay as close as possible within the subject of "alchemy".
>While most of us obviously consider alchemy to cover a broader range than
>the Near Eastern/European art of the transmutation of metals, still, we
>seem all of a sudden to be discussing Qabalah directly to the apparent
>exclusion of alchemy.

What is subject of "alchemy"? This is INNER alchemy forum. Alchemy is not
only transmutation of metals, as you think, and not just in posession of Near
Eastern/European.

>Therefore, in order to try and steer both streams together, I would like
>to raise an issue which has been on my mind for some time: does anyone
>think that there are elements of alchemical allegory in the Book of Exodus?

All material world is allegory.

Your Aharon

Subject: INNER - Kabalah and Text Availability
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 22:38:37 UT
From: Mike Dickman

As to all of this, we have few enough (not to mention limited enough! )
senses not to go chucking out too much before we even start... Seven grades of
colour, is it, and some three and a half octaves of sound, just to mention the
most all-encompassing...

As translator of both Tibetan and Old French, I earnestly implore you — "There
are not different kinds of mind," as old Huang–po so kindly pointed out, so,
although "there is no teaching that can be transmitted in words", everything
and nothing at all, all perfectly meet at this point.

As Aharon says, "the material world is all allegorical"... Alors! Qu'est–ce
qu'on attend?

By the way, thank you, Donald, for the Sepher Yetzira information.

Respectfully,
mike dickman


Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 14:13:47 -0800
From: Victoria GaVoian

In regards to letter by M. Dickman: "There are not different kinds of
mind," as old Huang–po so kindly pointed out..." -

Could he please elaborate on what aspect of the mind he is referring
to, or his view of what the mind is, in which he is referring.

Also to fellow alchemists,
I am new, and would like to know more about their relationship to inner
Alchemy, i.e... Why they feel the need to include its influence in their
lives. What they expect to achieve, and how it is to live under its
influence. I know this is a lot to ask, but pretend we're in a typing
chat room and someone gives you the "one" and only one, brief and
golden opportunity to answer simply as possible...

Best regards

Victoria GaVoian

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 13:13:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Denlinger

Victoria,

Thank you for your pointed and profitable question.
To respond to your question on what one might expect to achieve through a
relationship to inner alchemy, I expect to develop a neural net which will
allow tangible consciousness of subtle states and aspects of life.
As to why: why do seeds sprout and grow given proper conditions?
How? In the beginning we must regulate and clarify our life and mind.

Blessings

Dan

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 20:02:21 -0800
From: Anthony M. House

> From: Victoria GaVoian
> I am new, and would like to know more about their relationship to inner
> Alchemy, i.e... Why they feel the need to include its influence in their
> lives.

In brief:
The effects of alchemy are felt everyday Victoria as personal growth and
learning is pursued. Even when these are not pursued the effect is also
felt. In the realm of depth the psychology of influence is to act as a
conduit for the Grandfather (universe) and to earth the powers of nature
through her study.

>What they expect to achieve.

An old adage in alchemy is about evolution:"Nature unaided fails" or,
"All things are in a state of ever becoming", these axioms are telling
us about a perception of growth. The power to accelerate nature beyond
where we found her. For instance to achieve a 'stone' from a plant is a
process that she (nature) cannot do alone. Gaining insights into the
natural world and the non-physical world is the ideal in alchemy and the
control of this world and the other (astral world) is the ne plus ultra
for an alchemist.

>and how it is to live under its influence.

There is a dual influence active here. The previously stated goals
activate an inner contact with the Grandfather (universe) that sends you
to night school. At this celestial university you will learn the
elementary lessons of reading and writing there first, such as dream
practice and activating your senses in this astral kingdom. Further
lessons involve a catalyst from our world which comes from our
laboratories and the Great Work of obtaining the Philosophers Stone. The
use of the Stone of the Wise gives more permanent effects on the astral
world which allows longer contact with eternity. Time/space is
transcended there, and hours become days, days, weeks...etc. With each
new initiation we will obtain new powers of the many levels of the
qabala tree as we ascend to unity...

Peace to you and yours...

A.M.W. House


Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 16:38:28 UT
From: Mike Dickman

To Victoria GaVoian,

Thank you for taking me up, and please - in advance - excuse any regrettable
but possible inevitable 'psycho-waffle'!
"Mind" as referred to here - and particularly as Huang-po meant it, although
the definition I'm paraphrasing actually comes from the Tibetan Dzogchen
tradition - might tentatively be defined as "a primordial and unborn
awareness, empty in essence and radiant by nature, whose energy is
all-pervading".
As far as I can make out, as regards a prima materia, there is nothing prior
to this.
Before I make a real fool of myself on this score, however, I'd like to shut
up.

You also ask 'Why alchemy?' - for my own part it is, if you like, the
occidental coming-together of the various things I study and teach... Inasmuch
as it has managed to remain outside the manipulations of religions and
politics (and - worse yet! - religious politics) to a large degree, I have the
- unfounded, perhaps, I grant you - feeling that it really does contain the
very quintessence of the da-da-dah! "western tradition" in its purest and most
supra-sectarian forms.

Respectfully,

Mike

Subject: INNER - The Kabbalah and Exodus
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 22:54:58 UT
From: Mike Dickman

While on the subject of Qabalah and Exodus, not to mention Genesis, I take it
everyone is aware of Carlo Suares' 'The Book of Eve' in Maitreya 4 [Shambhala,
1973] and Charles Poncé's 'The Alchemical Death: Notes from a Journa'l and'An
Alchemical Allegory: Notes Towards an Understanding of Genesis' in Maitreya 3 &
5 ['72 and '74] respectively?...

With love,
Mike

Subject: INNER - The Kabbalah and Exodus
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 97 12:33:00 UT
From: Mike Dickman

While on the subject of Qabalah and Exodus - not to mention Genesis - I take
it everyone is aware of Carlo Suares' The Book of Eve in Maitreya 4
[Shambhala, 1973], and Charles Poncé's The Alchemical Death: Notes from a
Journal and An Alchemical Allegory: Notes Towards an Understanding of Genesis
in Maitreya 3 & 5 ['72 and '74] respectively?...

Was it Crowley who pointed out the double creation myth in Genesis? - The fact
that, at first, the primordial A-DAM (embodied consciousness, as it were) was
created male/ female in the image of the male/female singular/plural god,
ALHIM, and only subsequently preferred to deal with a second-level -
objective, possibly - reality, drawn forth from his/her/its own substance once
he/she/it had been put to sleep...

Respectfully,

mike

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 15:50:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz

Elements of alchemical allegory in Exodus Chapter Two

The story of Moses begins with the Pharaoh of Egypt passing an edict
demanding the drowning of all newborn Hebrew males. To protect her son, a
daughter of Levi, takes her baby and places him in a papyrus basket coated
with tar and pitch.

The numerical value of "with tar and with pitch" (Ex.2:3) B-Ch-M-R V-B-Z-Ph-Th,
(2+8+40+200)+(6+2+7+80+400) is 745. Add one for Unity and it will be 746,
the number of Purification Th-M-R-V-Q.

"the baby" H-Y-L-D 5+10+30+4=49
"dissolve" M-V-G 40+6+3=49

The text then reads "her child she put among the reed along the bank of the
Nile" The word used for Nile in this case is Ha Jar "the River" H-Y-A-R
(5+10+1+200=216). As Aesch Mezareph points out 216 is the number "of Arjeh
A-R-Y-H, our wonderful Lion". 216 is also the numerical value of Geburah
G-B-V-R-H identified in Aesch Mezareph as the source of gold.

The sister watches what becomes of him (Ex. 2:4). At no point is the process
unattended.

The basket is removed from the waters by the daughter of the Pharaoh. She
opens it and sees a "crying child". The value of "crying child" N-Aa-R
B-K-H is 347. This is the same number as "palanquin" A-Ph-R-Y-V-N (Cant.
3:9). In a sense, upon opening the vessel, the daughter of Pharaoh sees the
bridal carriage of the radiant and ruddy King whose head is of purest Gold
(Cant. 5:10-11).

She names him Moses because "from the waters I drew him" (Ex. 2:10)

"from" M-N 40+50=90
Melek "King" M-L-K 40+30+20=90

"the waters" H-M-Y-M 5+40+10+40=95
Malkah "Queen" M-L-K-H 40+30+20+5=95

"from the waters" =185
"I am my lover's and my lover is mine." (Cant. 6:3)
A-N-Y L-D-V-D-Y V-D-V-D-Y L-Y =185

"I drew him" M-Sh-Y-Th-H-V 40+300+10+400+5+6=761
"leprosy" Tz-R-Aa-Th 90+200+70+400=760

The text reads: "and he became to her as a son" (Ex. 2:10) V-Y-H-Y L-H
L-B-N. The numerical value of this phrase is 148, the same as Netzach. We
have moved from Geburah to Netzach. Aesch Mezareph calls Gold at Netzach
"Gold shut up...to bring forth seed". Wynn Westcott suggests fine or
treasured gold, or gold either in the bowels of the earth or in a chemical
closed vessel.

Moses grows to manhood. The story of his adult life begins with his killing
on an Egyptian man who had been beating a Hebrew. The text reads "he killed
the Egyptian and he hid him in the sand." (Ex.2:12)

The name Moses M-Sh-H (40+300+5=345) and the phrase "the Egyptian" H-M-Tz-R-Y
(5+40+90+200+10=345) are numerically equivalent. In a sense, Moses kills and
buries himself.

Moses then flees to Midian where he rescues the seven daughters of Reuel, a
priest of Midian, from some shepherds, and waters their flock.

"he watered" Y-Q-Sh 10+100+300=410
Metzareph "crucible" (Prov. 17:3, 27:21) M-Tz-R-Ph 40+90+200+80=410

Through his actions he comes to be given his Bride, Zipporah, a daughter of
the priest of Midian. She bears him a son: Gershom.

Gershom G-R-Sh-M 3+200+300+40 = 543
AHYH asher AHYH, "I AM who I AM" (God Self Identified) = 543

* * *

One further observation: I was struck by the reoccurring image of daughters. The
Alchemist in the above process is "a daughter" whether of Pharaoh or Levi.
The seven daughters of Reuel rescued by Moses. And finally the Bride is
referred to as "daughter".

The word "daughter" is B-Th (beth tau). In certain modern esoteric
literature the planetary correspondence for these two letters is
beth=Mercury and tau=Saturn. These two images appear together in Flamel's
Figures of Abraham the Jew.

The word Berashith B-R-A-Sh-Y-Th "In the beginning" (Gen. 1:1) is synonymous
with Creation. It can be seen as three words each inside the other, like
boxes. The central word is A-Sh "fire". The next word out is R-Y "moisture".
The outer word is B-Th "daughter". Creation is the union of Fire and
Moisture inside the Daughter.

Richard Patz

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 12:30:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Jose

Regarding Richard Patz' post:

Your analysis of Ch. 2 surpasses anything which I had envisioned, and
seems to support my hunches about alchemical elements in Exodus. I will
commit as soon as possible your generous correspondences to my fledgling
dictionary, and eagerly await more of same. Thank you!

Two questions I would like to ask:

1) with respect to the "historical" underpinnings of both qabbalah and
alchemy, can we take a text such as Exodus (presumably originating, if
not actually written, around or before 1000 B.C.E., i.e. before David) as
challenging scholarly placement of the origins of both traditions to
Talmudic and Hellenistic periods respectively (somewhere between
300 BCE and the beginnings of the first millenium)? Or can we make
a simple appeal to allegorical "archetypes" present, as it were, "from
the outset?"

2) May I ask if the derivations reflect your own work with gematria, or is
there a source(s) which I should be aware of, i.e. Aesch Mezareph?

Thank you once again for such a delightful exposition.

Jose

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 17:44:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Edward DeVito

Mike Dickman, responding to Victoria GaVoian, states:

<< I grant you - feeling that it (Alchemy) really does contain the very
quintessence of the da-da-dah! "western tradition" in its purest and most
supra-sectarian forms.>>

Can there be any doubt that this is the case? My investigations in Western
Magic have revealed the sibling relationship with Alchemical Thought that
seems to have its roots in Egyptian Tradition as either passed down through,
percieved by, or mytholigized in the later, Hellenistic Hermetica. The core
"tool" - elemental -symbolism is the same, and though emphasis varies, I
often see them as versions of the "Raja Yoga" of the West.

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 97 17:01:23 UT
From: Mike Dickman

Edward deVito, hi!

No. I was just being cautious is all.

One enormous difference with the orient, though, is the question of 'lineage'
- that is to say, of direct, untrammelled, unbroken and un-tampered-with
transmission and, more importantly, 'critical evaluation' from master to
student down the ever-lengthening line... Particularly over the last
thousand-odd years...

... Not that the teacher can 'create', as it were, enlightenment in the pupil,
but that a damn good whack with a stick occasionally might have saved many of
us and many others a hell of a lot of wasted time...

... Just thinking through my fingers...

Love and all,
Mike

Subject: INNER - Symbolism in Practical Work
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:27:55 -0500
From: Gilbert Arnold

I was reading over Urbiger's works when the following items looked
good for discussion;

"Having in our Travels fortuned to meet with some Persons of true
Principles in Philosophy and Religion, we could not but embrace them and
instruct them towards its farther Perfection, which cannot be attained
without the true knowledge of our Celestial Art. by which comprehending
all the Mystery of Mysteries, we learn also how to serve God in Faith
and Truth." from http://www.levity.com/alchemy/urbigeri.html

and

"III. Out of Diana's undetermined Tears, when Appollo has appeared,
after the Separation of the three Elements, Determination, Digestion and
glorious Resurrection, we can, without the Addition of any other created
thing, prepare this our determined Elixir: Which is the first, noblest, and
secretest way of the Philosophers." from
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/circulat.html

Now it would appear to me that Urbiger's background would be strongly
Christian, so that perhaps some hindsight type wisdom could be
extracted from the Aphorisms. For this reason I am cross-posting this to
the inner to the Inner forum, whose members probably know quite a bit
about symbolism. I also intend to discus the actual making of the
Circulatum Minus.

I'll open by saying that in retrospect Diana=Mary (Sophia) aka "mother of
God". Apollo aka Logos aka Jesus Christ.

The term "Out of Diana's undetermined Tears" seems to correspond to
wine spits, ie alcool distilled off of wine. This alcool seems to work the
best. Legend has it that Mary cried tears of blood at the crucifixion, and
linking this to the Christian link of Blood and Wine results in a pointer to
alcool distilled off of wine.

Things get a little interesting when the subject of Apollo aka Logos aka
Jesus Christ comes along. IMO, this symbolises the materials derived
from the essential oil obtained from steam distillation of certain plants.
In order for this process to work, the oil is first "born" by a distillation
through a narrow neck. It then requires a purification by a humid
sublimation through a wide neck into a helmet type distilling head.

The resultant purified "body" is then put into the "prepared tomb" (purified
salts) and "annointed" with a resinous type substance. It is written in the
Bible that the body of Jesus was annointed with spices that included
resinous substances.

And then of course, everything rises to glory, after a suitable time "in the
earth".

Comments?

Blessings,

+Gilbert

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 20:47:38 -0800
From: Victoria GaVoian

Thank you for responding to my question regarding Alchemy and its
effects along with what one might expect to achieve through a
relationship to inner alchemy. You had said that you "expect to
develop a neural net which will allow tangible consciousness of
subtle states and aspects of life." In reference to "neural states,"
why neural? In regards to "consciousness of subtle states," where
are you including the aspect of awareness.
As to why: why do seeds sprout and grow given proper conditions? How? In
the beginning we must regulate and clarify our life and mind.

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 00:21:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz

>From: Jose

Thank you for your kind words. And thank you for suggesting we look at
Exodus. I must admit I was quite surprised at some of the gematria
correspondences I found during this little project.

>1) with respect to the "historical" underpinnings of both qabbalah and
>alchemy, can we take a text such as Exodus (presumably originating, if
>not actually written, around or before 1000 B.C.E., i.e. before David) as
>challenging scholarly placement of the origins of both traditions to
>Talmudic and Hellenistic periods respectively (somewhere between
>300 BCE and the beginnings of the first millenium)? Or can we make
>a simple appeal to allegorical "archetypes" present, as it were, "from
>the outset?"

Well, we might want to look at the history of the Masoretic Text. What
traditions of alchemy and literal qabalah that existed at the time was
written? And could they have had any bearing?

>2) May I ask if the derivations reflect your own work with gematria, or is
>there a source(s) which I should be aware of, i.e. Aesch Mezareph?

I've been doing work with gematria for nearly sixteen years now. Currently I
use The NIV Interlinear Hebrew-English Old Testament, 4 vols., as Hebrew is
not my first language. And I have a small supply of lexicons, grammars and
one exceptional Hebrew-English concordance.

Crowley's Sepher Sephiroth includes a few addition and spelling errors -
Resh taken for Vau, that sort of thing - so while I might refer to his book
initially, I am not likely to use his entry unless I can verify it, either
in a reliable lexicon or in the Hebrew Bible.

Aesch Mezareph is a book I am currently reading. Hence the references in my
postings. I would love to share views and insights on it.

As far as Exodus chapter two goes, there are a couple of threads I would
like to pursue:

"seven daughters" - I would like to find an alchemical numerical equivalent.
Sh-B-Aa B-N-V-Th
300+2+70 2+50+6+400 = 830
seven daughters

Their father is called "Reuel" R-Aa-U-A-L=307 (chpt. 2) before Moses married
Zipporah and "Jethro" Y-Th-R-U=616 (chpt. 3) afterwards. I don't know why.
Ideas anyone?

Richard Patz

Subject: INNER - Symbolism in Practical Work
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:28:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz

>From: Gilbert Arnold

>The term "Out of Diana's undetermined Tears" seems to correspond to
>wine spits, ie alcool distilled off of wine. This alcool seems to work the
>best. Legend has it that Mary cried tears of blood at the crucifixion, and
>linking this to the Christian link of Blood and Wine results in a pointer to
>alcool distilled off of wine.


By coincidence I recently engaged a friend in a discussion of Divine Sorrow
which led to the inevitable search for examples. One such reference
reinforces your link to wine:

"All the world praises wine because it brings joy; but its pleasure is
unspeakably deep because there is something which flows in it that is
related to tears. According to the beautiful story which we read in Nonnus,
it is supposed to have sprung from the body of Ampelos, the dead favorite
for whom Dionysus shed hot tears. So the joy of men flows forth from the
tears of a god.

'Bacchus, the lord wept to still the tears of mortals.'
(Nonnus, 'Dionysiaca' 12.171, 5th c. A.D.)"

[Walter F. Otto, "Dionysus: Myth and Cult" p.148.]

It is a powerful image that God should grieve.

Richard Patz

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 19:08:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Jose

Richard's caveat about relying uncritically on "777" is well-taken.
I must confess I am still at a loss for historical evidence of either
alchemical or qabbalistic traditions alive and well at the time Exodus was
written. Yet surely their signatures seem undeniable...

Another one for the coals:

Richard mentions the value 90 as that of both "king" and "from" (I was not
aware of the second--what do you suggest it might mean?); it is also, to
the best of my knowledge, the value of "manna" (also spelled M-N), that
"fine, flaky substance" mentioned earlier. The value 90 is also the
letter-value of Tzaddi, the 18th letter of the Hebrew alphabet, whose
meaning is given as "fish-hook". Interestingly, the meanings of the
letters Mem (M = 40) and Nun (N = 50) are "water(s)" and "fish"
respectively, so there seems to be a definite relationship between the
three letters. Although some people debate the attribution of the 22
Tarot trumps to the Hebrew alphabet, and although among those that don't
one at least has vehemently asserted that "tzaddi is not the Star", by
mosr systems of correspondences, the trump attributed to the letter Tzaddi
is the Star, Key 17. The Sepher Yetzirah titles the path assigned to
Tzaddi "the natural intelligence", which gives a further hint that somehow
the artful manipulation of the water might provide the "hook" with which
to catch hold of the fish (which abide in the water). If we also look at
the keys corresponding to the letters Mem (Hanged Man) and Nun (Death), we
will receive obvious suggestions as to what this "water" might be, and
where we might find it. Key 17 then might refer both to how to "fix" it
once we find it, and also what to do with it.

To return to "manna", then, although I am not sure what, if any,
connection there may be between the different correspondences described
above, it occurred to me some time ago that if we add 300 to 90, we get
the value of the Hebrew word for "oil" (Sh-M-N), i.e. the kind used to
light the seven lamps upon the golden candlestick, etc. We get there by
adding the letter Shin (Sh = 300), which is described as the "Holy
Letter", and whose meaning is "tooth" (that with which we break open food
to release its contents). 300 is also the value of the term "Ruach
Elohim" (R-V-Ch = 200+6+8 = 214, A-L-H-I-M = 1+30+5+10+40 = 86), which
translates usually as "the Spirit of God", the same one we see hovering
over the waters in the opening lines of Genesis. So as not to beat around
the bush, to me, given the Tarot image associated with Shin (Key 20,
Judgement, a symbol of resurrection and of the birth of the "king-child"),
and the fiery nature associated with the letter itself, it seems a plain
symbol of the result of successful raising of kundalini, the inner fire.
This kundalini is also portrayed "nakedly" in the image of Death (Nun),
where it seems plain that the dissolution of body parts precedes the
reaping of a stream of water, and that this is brought about by "working
the soil", i.e. from the "below". The Hanged Man represents the mental
attitude and practices which must be undertaken to work towards this end.
The "water" whose value is 90 is then the "manna" or "bread of life" which
we must break apart with our "teeth" in order to reveal its hidden fire,
so that the "oil" can be ignited to provide light (illumination?). In
that sense, might not the "manna" represent our natural starting-point,
viz. the 'first matter' (which in Genesis is evidently water)?

Lastly, if we add the letter H (Heh = 5 = "the", the deifinitive article)
to 390 we get 395, the value of the phrase "the heavens" (shamaim,
Sh-M-I-M), which is composed of the letter Shin (fiery in nature, as we
have seen) and the word "maim" (which means "water", "seas"). It is also
the value of the word "neshamah" (N-Sh-M-H), the term for the Higher Soul.
This allusion is interesting if only because it reminds us of the larger
phrase "fire of heaven" (esh-ha-shamaim = A-Sh H-Sh-M-I-M), which, aong
other things, is an old French name for Key 16, The Tower, an
unmistakeable image of the awakening of kundalini, which precedes the Star
in the series of Trumps. About the individual words A-Sh and Sh-M-I-M
still more might be said, i.e. they represent a coming together of the
most primordial forces in nature, since they are composed of the three
"mother letters" (A =aleph =Root of Fire =The Fool; Sh =Root of Fire; M
=Root of Water) plus the father of all the letters, yod (I or Y), i.e. as
a symbol of the I AM, the primordial consciousness. But to dwell
overly-long on these types of associations seems, in my expreience, to
blunt the initial delight which follows their discovery, so that, like
manna, we should not attempt to hoard our findings overnight, but remain
confident that they will appear once more, fresh, like dew.

I apologize for the unnecessarily protracted length of the letter.

Respectfully,
Jose

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:35:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Keeper (Edward DeVito)

Dear Mike,

In a message dated 97-01-13 13:39:15 EST, you write:

<< One enormous difference with the orient, though, is the question of
'lineage' - that is to say, of direct, untrammelled, unbroken and
un-tampered-with transmission and, more importantly, 'critical evaluation'
from master to student down the ever-lengthening line... Particularly over
the last thousand-odd years... >>

I will hazard that the Western Tradition has its "Line" as well. It is well
established and quite alive on the inside. We know we have grasped it when
the appropriate "symbols & signs" become activated. Everything is "just
right." The bridge then, to students, is still by word of mouth (bearing
witness).

Love & Light!

Edward

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:03:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Jose

> From: Richard Patz
> Elements of alchemical allegory in Exodus Chapter Two
> "the baby" H-Y-L-D 5+10+30+4=49
> "dissolve" M-V-G 40+6+3=49

The value of "kokab" (K-K-V-B, 20+20+6=8), the name for the planet Mercury
(and the 8th sphere of the qabbalistic Tree) is 48, which we get if we
"add 1 for unity".
It is also the value of the term "gedulah" (G-D-V-L-H, 3+4+6+30+5), or
majesty, a title of the 4th sphere.

> "the waters" H-M-Y-M 5+40+10+40=95
> Malkah "Queen" M-L-K-H 40+30+20+5=95

95 is also the value of "madim" (M-A-D-I-M, 40+1+4+10+40), or Mars, also a
title of the 5th sphere, and meaning "powers", as in the Greek "dynamis".

> The text then reads "her child she put among the reed along the bank of the
> Nile" The word used for Nile in this case is Ha Jar "the River" H-Y-A-R
> (5+10+1+200=216). As Aesch Mezareph points out 216 is the number "of Arjeh
> A-R-Y-H, our wonderful Lion". 216 is also the numerical value of Geburah
> G-B-V-R-H identified in Aesch Mezareph as the source of gold.

Geburah is the usual title of the 5th sphere, associated with the planet
Mars. Paul Case also tanslates it as "trembling", i.e. another title
sometimes given is pachad, or "fear". He also makes reference to a verse
somewhere in either Psalms or Proverbs where it is said that "gold comes
from the north", the direction associated with the planet Mars.


> The text reads: "and he became to her as a son" (Ex. 2:10) V-Y-H-Y L-H
> L-B-N. The numerical value of this phrase is 148, the same as Netzach. We
> have moved from Geburah to Netzach. Aesch Mezareph calls Gold at Netzach
> "Gold shut up...to bring forth seed". Wynn Westcott suggests fine or
> treasured gold, or gold either in the bowels of the earth or in a chemical
> closed vessel.

Another title associated with Netzach is Nogah, the Sphere of Venus
(N-V-G-H, 50+6+3+5 = 64). 64 is also the value of "deen" (D-I-N,
4+10+50), or "justice", yet another title assoc. with the 5th sphere. So
here we have another connection between Geburah (5) and Netzach (7).
From above we have a similar connection between Chesed/Gedulah (4) and Hod
(8), and if we look at a diagram of the Tree, we see that the 4-8 "axis"
and the 5-7 axis intersect at the point of the central sphere, Tiphareth,
sphere of the Sun. Their combined values also both add up to 12 (4+8 =
5+7).
Perhaps this is just pulling rabbits out of a hat...

> The name Moses M-Sh-H (40+300+5=345) and the phrase "the Egyptian" H-M-Tz-R-Y
> (5+40+90+200+10=345) are numerically equivalent. In a sense, Moses kills and
> buries himself.

345 is the "reflection" of 543, which is the value of the phrase "I AM
THAT I AM" (A-H-I-H A-Sh-R A-H-I-H, 1+5+10+5 = 21 1+300+200 = 501
1+5+10+5 = 21, 21+501+21 = 543). But I am not sure we can do this...

> Gershom G-R-Sh-M 3+200+300+40 = 543
> AHYH asher AHYH, "I AM who I AM" (God Self Identified) = 543

Jose

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:36:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Jose

On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Alchemy e-mail wrote:

> The word Berashith B-R-A-Sh-Y-Th "In the beginning" (Gen. 1:1) is synonymous
> with Creation. It can be seen as three words each inside the other, like
> boxes. The central word is A-Sh "fire". The next word out is R-Y "moisture".
> The outer word is B-Th "daughter". Creation is the union of Fire and
> Moisture inside the Daughter.

This seems to be a pregnant phrase. I had not thought to approach it in
the above way before. It is interesting that the concepts of moisture and
fire should be related. The pictorial images of Keys 18 (Moon) and 19
(Sun) suggest this, i.e. the flaming "yods" which somehwo water and
nourish the sublunary realms. Also, the word for "sun", shemesh (Sh-M-Sh,
300+40+300 = 640) shows the waters (maim) concealed/contained within the
fire (shin). Similarly, the word for fire, "esh" (A-Sh) also consists of
two 'mother' letters, the ones signifying air and fire. In the term
B-R-A-Sh-I-Th, it appears as if the fire-air (A-Sh) has driven apart the
waters, or moisture (R-I), as it is said that God divided the waters to
create the heavens and the earth; all this in turn is somehow contained
within the "daughter" (B-Th), i.e. the bride, or Malkuth (the 10th sphere,
the kingdom, this world).

Anyway, the phrase B-R-A-Sh-I-Th contains the word "rashith", the literal
word for "beginning", and in qabbalah we are told that the universe is
manifested by the rashith ha-galgalim (R-A-Sh-I-Th H-G-L-G-L-I-M = 1032),
"the beginning of the whirlings". The word G-L-G-L (66) means "wheel", or
"water-wheel", or "whirl-wind", and is also the name of one of three
different towns near Jericho. Perhaps interestingly, the word G-L-G-L-Th
means "skull, head", and the astrologer Dane Rudhyar suggests that the
crucifixion of Jesus Christ at Golgotha, "the place of the skull", is a
metaphor for the coming together of the soli-lunar currents (they
literally cross) at the center between the eyebrows.

I couldn't help but notice today, then, that the derivatized form
G-L-G-L-I-M, presumably meaning "whirlings", has the same value (116) as
the Hebrew word for "alchemy" (A-L-K-I-M-I-H, 1+30+20+10+40+10+5 = 116).

But enough numerology...
I was wondering today what significance along alchemical/yogic lines there
might be to the notion of "bread" and "wine" in both the New and Old
Testaments? Someone suggested that bread is "white", and represents
flesh, while wine is obviously red, but I would hesitate to make such a
convenient association. It seems nevertheless that both are symbols of
the artful intervention of human agency in the manipulation of natural
materials to produce otherwise "un-natural" materials (or, in the case of
wine, to accelerate/direct/purify their natural development). Both
involve the process of fermentation, which in turn implies an organismal
growth process. The notion of "distillation of spirits" is plain with
wine, as well as its universally-acclaimed effects. Similarly, in earlier
times the leavening of bread must have seemed an extraordinary process,
and brings to mind the comparison of the "kingdom of heaven" (the one we
are told to seek within) to natural substances capable of growth, i.e. the
mustard seed.

Any thoughts?

Jose

Subject: INNER - Jung
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:52:46 +0100
From: Nik Lippens

Dear fellow friends,

As you all know (or for those that do not) Carl Jung had a dream
one night. He "dreamt" that he was walking through his house and all of
a sudden he discovered a second wing to his house. He entered the wing
and came into a big library, but when he stepped up to one of the books,
he could only see signs - signs that he had never seen before and that
he couldn't explain. After he had some patients that had simular dreams
with signs in them and after he had this dream a couple of more times he
started his research on alchemy. It took him 10 years to explain
everything about alchemy.....

Now, my question to all of you is - the amount of material that I have
about this is very limited and I was wondering if there was anyone out
there that could help me. If you would rather e-mail me privately my e-mail is nik@unicall.be - but I think for all those who are interested in this it would be
better to share this information with everyone .

Your friend Nik

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 21:33:23 -0800
From: Belle Hall

I never dreamed that Inner alchemy group would move so quickly away from
psychology/universal soul ideas to cabala. And yet somehow I did know.
Although I am floundering with the"how" you get the cabala (numbers are
NOT my love) I do not question for a moment the "why". I can plainly see
that it is important and am grateful that several of you are
knowledgeable and so willing to share.

If I missed it just ignore me, but did we establish the connection with
EXODUS itself? Could you-in-the-know please tell me the origin of that
word? Granted the traditional meaning is the Israelites departure from
Egypt. Exodus seems to indicate from the Greek word exodos--
a going out / a way out as hodos is way.

Maybe I was wrong. Should we examine a bit of Genesis to see where we
started before we examine our way out? I'm probably scratching myself out
in left field again, but I thought I'd ask. By all means do
not stop the surge going on here. But maybe when it is
appropriate you could backtrack a bit.

Thank you.

Peace,

Belle.

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 97 21:24:35 UT
From: Mike Dickman

Keeper (intriguing name, that... I like it immensely),

You say

I will hazard that the Western Tradition has its "Line" as well... We know we
have grasped it when the appropriate "symbols & signs" become activated.
Everything is "just right

I would certainly agree that lineage is connected with as (and only as) its
internal symbolism begins to take on real life and meaning in the experience
of the practitioner, and that the presence of some smiling (or severe-looking,
for that matter) gentlemen with know-it-all eyes and questionable reputations
is not of the essence...

The Tibetan (for example) terms lama (bla.ma), tsawa'i lama (rtsa.ba'i bla.
ma) and lama dampa (bla.ma dam.pa) - (forgive me: half my life is spent
translating this stuff) - express this rather interestingly...

Externally "anyone who has completed a three year, three month, three day
retreat" is technically a lama, that is to say, 'someone who has fully
activated his potentiality'... The ego-filled horrors of this in occedens for
the moment need not be gone into...

The tsawa'i, or 'root', lama is, in the words of 'Jamyang Ky'entse, Chokyi
Lodro, (1893-1956), "one's own enlightenment projected before one in the form
of one's main teacher". The tsawa'i lama is that lama who finally gets the
disciple to recognise his own mind as identical with primordial awareness as
the root and source of 'all this', 'all that is'...

... Which recognition, and its subsequent enactment as compassion following a
genuine stabilisation of this 'view', is referred to as the lama dampa, the
'best, holy, or real' lama, the existence and pre-emenence of which it is the
tsawa'i lama's only and sacred business to point out...

Certainly enough, this scenario (in the real sense of that term) is to be
found in each and every initiatic system, and of this there can be no doubt.
However I cannot but return to the fast-descending stick...

'"Some of us," said Lin-ch'i to his chief disciple (who's name now escapes
me), "prefer the shout and some prefer the stick. Which do you prefer?"
"I would not choose," the disciple wisely replied.
"Yes, but if you had to," Lin-ch'i pressed him.
The disciple shouted.

And Lin-ch'i hit him...'

We're not talking about fools.

The bridge then, to students, is still by word of mouth (bearing
witness)

... Mmm... Yeah...

Mind your head,
Mike

PS - Forgive me if the tone seems aggressive: please read it, rather, as
ardent/intense.
Getting oneself checked out, and subtly reoriented wherever one is more, or
less, out of line seems to me to be fundamental
God knows, I don't claim to know the first thing about anything at all!

Subject: INNER - Jung
From: Michela Pereira
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 19:21:53 +0100

>From: Nik Lippens

>Now, my question to all of you is - the amount of material that I have
>about this is very limited and I was wondering if there was anyone out
>there that could help me.

Dear Nik

I have written two essays on Jung and alchemy, but the problem with them, I
suppose, is that they are written in Italian. I realize that very few people
read Italian, my second book also (which has something on Jung in the first
chapter) is written in Italian and is little known (its main focus is the
ps.Lullian Testamentum).

However I give you details about all of them.
1. Il paradigma della trasformazione. L'alchimia nel Mysterium Coniunctionis
di C.G. Jung, "aut-aut" 229-230, 1980, pp. 197-217
2. L'alchimia e la psicologia di Jung, in Trattato di psicologia analitica,
diretto da Aldo Carotenuto, UTET, Torino, 1992, vol. I, pp. 415-445
3. L'oro dei filosofi. Saggio sulle idee di un alchimista del '300, CISAM,
Spoleto, 1992.

Friendly
Michela Pereira

Subject: INNER - Jung
From: DONALD MINSON
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:23:47 +0000

Nik Lippens wrote:

> Now, my question to all of you is - the amount of material that I
> have about this is very limited and I was wondering if there was
> anyone out there that could help me

NIK,

What info do you have? Jung's specific books on alchemy can be
found in the Collected Works...the main one's are... 'Psychology and
Alchemy'(vol. 12)... 'Alchemical Studies'(vol. 13)... 'Mysterium
Coniunctionis'.(vol. 14)..and the somewhat less Alchemically oriented
'Aion'(vol. 9 II)...There is a book out there called: 'CGJung: Word
and Image' that has some more biographical info including some
references to alchemy and some very large pictures of alchemical
emblems/drawings/text/etc....

I personally have found these volumes to be the most helpful in my
alchemical queries...] I am highly interested in Analytic Psychology
and Jung's exposition of alchemy's themes and meanings have drawn me
to this group... I would love to discuss themes ideas and entertain
questions/answers among any who specifically find the Jungian
Alchemical approach fundamental, interesting, or curious..

We have, as a group, inner alchemy as our focus... yet with so many
ideas through the centuries coming into the fold of alchemy it is
impossible to focus 80 or so people on one specific topic... I would
encourage anyone and everyone to begin discussing anything and
everything that they are interested in within the fold of alchemy and
perhaps then we could have several "conversations" going on at once,
perhaps some crossreferencing would then be possible between what
would naturally become sort of arbitrary sub-groups with fluid
borders and welcome interchange... I know that I am very busy and
cannot, though I would like to, research every topic I am interested
in... I feel that with more going on there would be less to do outside
of learning from each other, especially since we would each be able
to elaborate on what we know best, welcome new information, and
sample from the more elaborate discussions going on outside our
specific interests... just a thought... any comments/beginnings?

respectfully

DMINSON


------------
I feel I must reply here to D. Minson's last paragraph especially the
statement "I would encourage anyone and everyone to begin
discussing anything and everything that they are interested in
within the fold of alchemy". It is my experience with e-mail groups that
unless we keep focussed on the subject of the group, then the group
drifts off into irrelevancies and a number of regular contributors turn off
from having to read through a load of material unrelated to alchemy,
leaving the field open for a few individual to pursue their ideosyncracies.
Unless the group remains focussed on alchemy then it goes into a
spiral of pointless and irrelevant postings. I remember on the original
alchemy forum some years ago a group of people thought it a good
idea to pursue the subject of trepanning.

We must keep a focus on alchemy as such - I am afraid I become rather
worried by a call for "anyone and everyone to begin discussing anything
and everything..." An email group like this tends to respond to some
postings which for one reason or another acts like seeds. A discussion
follows involving a number of people and this runs its course and decays.
Another theme arises and so on. This is the nature of e-mail communication,
and indeed of most conversations. This is what we should expect out of an
e-mail group - the opportunity to hold or listen to a conversation with people
separated by many miles. We are all busy people with masses of stuff to
read through each day. I think we should let the e-mail groups proceed
in their own organic way and not try to force the discussion of all sorts
of matters peripheral to alchemy.

The inner alchemy group has been very successful - we have avoided
the unpleasant rows and aggressive attacks on others which stained
the earlier alchemy forum. So let us just accept the gentle pace and nature
of this group and not feel we have to force it into high gear and fill it out it
with loads of irrelevant postings.

Adam McLean

Subject: INNER - the primordial A-DAM
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:30:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz

>From: Mike Dickman
>
>Was it Crowley who pointed out the double creation myth in Genesis? - The fact
>that, at first, the primordial A-DAM (embodied consciousness, as it were) was
>created male/ female in the image of the male/female singular/plural god,
>ALHIM, and only subsequently preferred to deal with a second-level -
>objective, possibly - reality, drawn forth from his/her/its own substance once
>he/she/it had been put to sleep...

Crowley wasn't the first.

There is wonderful passage in the Zohar that expands on this. I found it
useful to my meditations on the Rosarium Philosophorum engravings -
particularly the idea that there is no union until rain.

"On another occasion Rabbi Simeon spake and said: "It is written, 'And every
plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb in the field
before it grew, for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth'
(Gen. 2:5). By the phrase, 'Every plant of the field' is meant the
preexisting ideal forms of great forest trees before their actual appearance
in the world. Note that Adam and Eve were at first created androgynous.
Wherefore were they not created face to face, or separated individuals?
Because, as Scripture states, 'The Lord God had not caused it to rain upon
the earth.' The union of man and wife is a type of a great spiritual fact,
viz., the union of heaven and earth which could not be accomplished until
the rain which united them descended. Then Adam and Eve ceased to be
androgynous and gazed into each other's faces, as is the case with heaven
and earth, the one reflecting the image of the other." (Zohar I:34b-35a,
Nurho de Manhar trans.)

Richard Patz

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 13:31:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz

>From: Jose
>Richard mentions the value 90 as that of both "king" and "from" (I was not
>aware of the second--what do you suggest it might mean?);

I was impressed by "from the waters"(90+95) = "king"(90)+"queen"(95).

>it is also, to
>the best of my knowledge, the value of "manna" (also spelled M-N), that
>"fine, flaky substance" mentioned earlier.

Interesting point. In Exodus 16:31 Manna is described: "It was white (L-B-N)
like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey."

To feed this back into Exodus chapter two, the daughter of Pharaoh opened
the basket which was covered in tar and pitch - I presume coloured black.
Inside she saw the "crying child". When he grew older "he became to her as a
son". The phrase "as a son" L-B-N is the same spelling for the word "white"
L-B-N used above. So we could add that after the black phase in the sealed
basket or vessel, Moses became "white" to the daughter of Pharaoh.

* * *

>the phrase "the heavens" (shamaim,
>Sh-M-I-M), which is composed of the letter Shin (fiery in nature, as we
>have seen) and the word "maim" (which means "water", "seas").

Genesis 1:1 says: "In the beginning Elohim created the Heavens and the Earth."
As you have pointed out "heavens" Sh-M-I-M is fire and water. If we look at
the word "Earth" A-R-Tz we see the letter Aleph (air) and the word itself
Eretz (earth).

So we can read "In the beginning Elohim created the Fire and the Water, the
Air and the Earth."

Richard Patz

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 97 18:46:24 UT
From: Mike Dickman

Belle

If you can, have a look into the stuff I mentioned by Suares and Poncé... It
aint much, but it's sure in hell intriguing...

Love,
Mike

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects?
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:05:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Richard Patz

>From: Mike Dickman
>The tsawa'i, or 'root', lama is, in the words of 'Jamyang Ky'entse, Chokyi
>Lodro, (1893-1956), "one's own enlightenment projected before one in the form
>of one's main teacher". The tsawa'i lama is that lama who finally gets the
>disciple to recognise his own mind as identical with primordial awareness as
>the root and source of 'all this', 'all that is'...

Would you suggest then that alchemical transmutation is our own
transmutation projected before us in the same fashion with the same
subsequent recognition of ourselves being identical with prima materia?

>...Which recognition, and its subsequent enactment as compassion following a
>genuine stabilisation of this 'view', is referred to as the lama dampa, the
>'best, holy, or real' lama, the existence and pre-emenence of which it is the
>tsawa'i lama's only and sacred business to point out...

This stabilisation of view - is this what is meant by the Wish-fulfilling
Gem? (I am making the jump from stabilisation to stone).

Richard Patz


Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 03:41:16 -0800
From: Victoria GaVoian

A.M.W.House,

Thank you for answering my questions as to alchemy and its
effects. I have questions in regards to your answer in regard to what
to expect to acheve in relationship to alchemy:

You had said:
>An old adage in alchemy is about evolution:"Nature unaided fails"

Is not life motivated to descend into form to partake in life's labors,
to somehow compensate life, the creator of life?
How does nature fail?
Perhaps being so new, I have completely misunderstood, can you please
elaborate.

>"All things are in a state of ever becoming", these axioms are telling
>us about a perception of growth. The power to accelerate nature
>beyond where we found her.

What if we accelerated nature only to find ourselves in that great
beyond? And why accelerate nature? Isn't there a natural life-
unfoldment? Could it be that the laws of nature, subject
to the slow rythm of time, may be germinating on collective scale,
completing its process. Just as we?

When you speak of nature, are you refering to the nature of man or
nature as in the world?

the ideal in alchemy and the control of this world and the other (astral
world) is the ne plus ultra for an alchemist.

This control over the astral world, what would you do, if you could?

Does Alchemy have its own set of initiatory obligations or practices
that one must achieve?

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 21:47:57 -0800
From: Anthony M. House

Hello Victoria,

Motivation may not be the term to use for descending to three
dimentional space/time. Evolution is movement, growth, both of which
occur without motivation. Involution, which is the separation from the
NO-thing occurs by necessity. Qabalists insist that where there is no
time/space there is no evolution. Nothing can be done there as there is
no 'there' in which to do anything...To understand this it's necessary
to involute to a dimentional space/time where action and reaction can
take place. Here, now, something can be done.

> How does nature fail?

Nature is the natural world of physical space/time. The elements of
nature are guided and formulated from invisible layers of inner
non-space. Time does exist there, in the sense we know here, yet time
can pass there as seconds equalling hours, minutes equalling days, and
so on..Nature fails to produce perfection such as gold, or the
philosophers stone. Unaided, nature as consciousness desires the help of
man to bring her progeny to the ultimate in this space/time.

> Perhaps being so new, I have completely misunderstood, can you please
> elaborate.

Elaboration is the goal of alchemists....

> >"All things are in a state of ever becoming", these axioms are telling
> >us about a perception of growth. The power to accelerate nature
> >beyond where we found her.
> What if we accelerated nature only to find ourselves in that great
> beyond? And why accelerate nature? Isn't there a natural life-
> unfoldment? Could it be that the laws of nature, subject
> to the slow rythm of time, may be germinating on collective scale,
> completing its process. Just as we?

In order to accelerate natures progeny we must know what her intention
is for whatsoever thing she has produced. Taking up where she has left
her offspring. If we understand her purpose, which she cannot complete
by herself, we will achieve the perfection of the world and of nature,
discovering the great inner beyond of the NO-thing. Unfoldment of
natural things is a slow process which alchemists have seen as requiring
an acceleration to go faster toward unity or oneness.

> When you speak of nature, are you refering to the nature of man or
> nature as in the world?

The power of reproduction and growth in this space/time, equal to
lifeforce in this world = nature.

> > the ideal in alchemy and the control of this world and the other (astral
> world) is the ne plus ultra for an alchemist.

This control over the astral world, what would you do, if you could?
I would perfect all that is below the perfection of gold and that which
the philosophers stone can reorganize. Ultimately, the powers of inner
worlds before atoms would be at my evocation. They would be the engine
of my vehicle/soul/body ready to my command and capable of productions
at my will...

> Does Alchemy have its own set of initiatory obligations or practices
> that one must achieve?

Each develops to each ones own capability. There are no obligations or
practices that anyone MUST do. However, to achieve the high goal of
making the P. Stone does require the discipline to initiate and sustain
the effort to obtain the wisdom. There are five steps to wisdom:
1.superstition. 2.belief. 3.knowledge. 4.understanding. 5.wisdom..
Through knowledge, comes understanding, understanding properly applied
leads to wisdom...I hope these words help you to understand...;-)

House.

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 01:48:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Edward DeVito

Dear Mike

(Pleased you like the name) I've found an interesting side effect of this
name is that it helps me to mind my head. (Chuckles).

Your approach was not aggressive, at all, but rather, stimulating, good sir
(Ardent = Andrew, is my given, middle name). You opened a door into a great
hall, where the royal banners are white, for the pure hearts who bore them
there.

Your approach was not aggressive, at all, but rather, stimulating, good sir
(Ardent = Andrew, is my given, middle name). A door is opened into a great
hall, where the royal banners are white, for the pure hearts who bore them
there. I struggled with words to validate what is beautifully sustained in
the illustration of the lamas, tsawa'i, or 'root', lama, and, lama dampa
(best, holy or real lama). I once formulated this exchange as, "the criteria
of 'divine' perception, which has something to do with realization." And, was
left trying to explain what I meant. Not so pretty; so, kept coming back to
the "active symbols & signs".

This is good stuff. Thanks!

Keeper
(Edward DeVito, Portland Oregon)

Subject: INNER - Tarot cards
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 22:47:04 -0800
From: Richard Roberts

When I read Donald's invitation to discuss "anything and everything within
the fold of alchemy," I thought Adam would welcome the invitation, for I have
read his paper and agree with him on the Hermetic origin of Tarot cards,
and his conclusion that they are not derived from the Kaballah. The supposition
is that because there are 22 Major Arcana in Tarot and 22 letters in the Jewish
alphabet, there must be a connection, but I have always found it to be a
kind of "glass bead game" that ultimately becomes a Procrustean bed.

When Joseph Campbell and I were researching twenty years ago our
collaboration TAROT REVELATIONS, we were granted a personal tour
of the Fields collection of playing cards. Some decks had more than
22 Major Arcana and there were circular cards from India
and the Orient, so equivalences to Kaballah and the Book of Thoth are really
spurious. Originally we began TR to publish our two unique ways of arranging
the Major Arcana. Campbell would stay in my apt. when he visited the West
Coast to lecture, and as "thank yous" sent me Bollingen Foundation books,
three of which were the Jung alchemical books which Donald mentioned.
Imagine my surprise when I found certain tableau reproduced in Waite's
Golden Dawn Tarot. The intended brief book thus became 300 pgs. w/300
footnotes. By book's end I conclude that "Waite's Tarot is specifically
alchemical in theme, restoring what may have been the original orientation
of Tarot.... In the 22 cards comprising the Major Arcana we have a genuine
Gnostic document of the soul's initiation into higher consciousness. As such
it may be interpreted as a Western Book of the Dead."

Therefore, I thought Adam would welcome Donald's invitation to steer
an alternate course from Kaballah to Jung because by itself the study
of esoteric mss. can be transformative only in the context of and "inner
alchemy" that culminates in Selfhood, our becoming "gold of the Sun" at
the end of the individuation process. Richard Patz is quite right when he says
"alchemical transmutation is our own transmutation projected before us...
ourselves being identical with prima materia." (Aside to Belle, the book
you mentioned JUNG & TAROT is a spinoff from my book, Nichols free
associating "anything and every-thing" Jungian). Incidentally TAROT
REVELATIONS has been in print twenty years and I have a case of 36
of an earlier edition which I am donating to Adam to make available to
his members to defray his web site costs. Only in his first book,
'A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake', did Campbell, the world's foremost
mythologist, collaborate with another author. Our book also has an intro
by England's own Colin Wilson ('The Outsider') in which he
labels me "part of that 'Outsider' tradition that runs from Goethe to Hesse
and Camus. That is to say, he woke up early to the fact that he had been
born into acivilization in which he felt himself to be a stranger." I am
perhaps an old alchemist. Certainly I identify with The Hermit in the
Arcana, and I find the Web a wonderful way to let the world in without
actually letting the world in( I've only had a PC nine months and it will
probably take me an hour to type this email).

Best regards to all,

Richard Roberts

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:50:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Jose

> From: Belle Hall
> I never dreamed that Inner alchemy group would move so quickly away from
> psychology/universal soul ideas to cabala. And yet somehow I did know.
> Although I am floundering with the"how" you get the cabala (numbers are
> NOT my love) I do not question for a moment the "why". I can plainly see
> that it is important and am grateful that several of you are
> knowledgeable and so willing to share.

Thank you Belle--I had actually begun to worry that maybe others were
being put off by the recent "surge" in gematria, and that maybe the whole
thing was just sort of meandering without a specific objective.

> If I missed it just ignore me, but did we establish the connection with
> EXODUS itself? Could you-in-the-know please tell me the origin of that
> word? Granted the traditional meaning is the Israelites departure from
> Egypt. Exodus seems to indicate from the Greek word exodos--
> a going out / a way out as hodos is way.

Well, as you correctly point out, "exodus" does in fact stem from the
Greek, i.e. probably from the Greek version of the O.T. (the Septuagint).
The Hebrew name of the book, as with "Genesis", stems from the first few
words of the actual text, in this case "Now these are the numbers...",
which refers to the detailing of the number of Israelites which had come
to be living in Egypt at the time of the account.

> Maybe I was wrong. Should we examine a bit of Genesis to see where we
> started before we examine our way out? I'm probably scratching myself out
> in left field again, but I thought I'd ask. By all means do
> not stop the surge going on here. But maybe when it is
> appropriate you could backtrack a bit.

Fair enough! I read somewhere this weekend that "the alchemists" often
considered the opening account in Genesis (or "In the beginning",
BRAShITh) to hold all of the key elements of their doctrines, much as the
Emerald Tablet is seen to encapsulate the essence of the work. Without
necessarily probing back that far just yet, we should recall that Joseph,
the son of Jacob/Israel, is left to die in a pit by his brothers and taken
away to Egypt, where he gains recognition by interpreting Pharaoh's
dreams, and rises to prominence, eventually sending for his family so that
they can partake of his good fortunes there. Halevi, a popular
present-day writer on kabbalah, sees this is as an allegory for the
incarnation of the soul/consciousness in the physical/material world
(typified by Egypt, which in Hebrew signifies "narrowness" or "bondage"),
as a result of the allure presented by worldly success, etc. Exodus,
then, represents the "going out from" materiality of consciousness once
the original covenant with God (i.e. that we are citizens of "Israel",
spiritual by nature, a "nation of priests"--no ethnic favoritism is
intended here!) is recalled. Halevi feels that the original, spiritual
condition of the soul (i.e. in Eden) is "forgotten" as a result of
sojourning in the physical (the donning of garments of fig leaves), as
evidenced by the statement in the opening lines of Exodus that there came
to be a new Pharaoh in Egypt, one which had not known Joseph. In Halevi's
scheme, Joseph represnts the "Ego" drawn into incarnate existence, but
obviously "astral" in nature, as evidenced by his "coat of many colors",
and his ability to interpret dreams; Pharaoh represents the "materialist"
frame-of-mind which enslaves us to our apparently endless and fruitless
labors (making bricks without compensation, living just to work) and which
resists with ever-hardening heart when the call to leave Egypt is heard.

Cast in this vein, I think the general plan of Exodus speaks for itself as
the prototype of the archetypal "journey". What becomes interesting is
the individual elements such as that Moses, the figure which leads the
Israelites out of Egypt, is himself born in Egypt, etc. Doubtless we risk
reading too much into different parts of the account if we come to it with
a series of pre-conceptions, but somehow I think there is a lot which can
be plumbed here. One thing which I find curious is that, before he dies,
at the end of Genesis, Joseph foretells the coming of a liberator which
will lead Israel out of Egypt, and ordains that his bones be taken from
Egypt when the time comes to leave. I can't help but feel that there must
be some hidden significance to these "bones of Joseph", but I haven't been
able to put my finger on it thus far.

Anyway, assuming that we will continue to discuss this story in the weeks
to come (hopefully), I'll leave it at that for now.

Respectfully,
Jose

Subject: INNER - Thalia the muse
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 19:17:40 UT
From: Mike Dickman

Donald (this is going back a bit)

Must be getting old! Could you refresh my memory as to the Hermetic Tarot
cards and Adam's article on them?

Thanks,
Mike

Subject: INNER - Kabbalah
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 18:34:48 UT
From: Mike Dickman

Aharon

This is going back to your first letter on the forum... You say you have
established Tarot-Qabalah correspondences which differ from others
you've seen (GD, I suppose, and Crowley, among others)
I'd be interested to know what you find.

Respectfully,

Mike

T Subject: INNER - Tarot cards
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:16:00 -0800
From: Belle Hall

> From: Richard Roberts
>(Aside to Belle, the book
> you mentioned JUNG & TAROT is a spinoff from my book, Nichols free
> associating "anything and every-thing" Jungian)

Belle understands the aside. I am on my way now to bookstore. Probably
the book will need to be ordered. I concur that the Tarot leans the way
of alchemy. Perhaps because each of us is Called in such unique
forms to the Inner arena, that the cabala is interwoven lightly into the
warp of Tarot tapestry. It only takes one or two gold or silver threads
to transform a homespun into a work of Art.

Just as the children lured E.T. with Reece's Pieces, each of us has
been lured to a higher level. At least I was. I wouldn't listen to the
Call initially and the lure was dreams and astrology. To get where I've
been Called there is a need for Tarot, Jung, cabala, the ancients and all
the "old souls" who've the time to assist... PLUS all the concepts I have
not even read about yet! It is interesting for me to watch the wealth of
ken that comes forth through our notes to one another.

Everything/everything happens for a Reason. And I am but a thread.

Peace, Belle

Subject: INNER - Bread and wine
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:20:49 +0100
From: Michela Pereira

Some days ago, a message to the inner alchemy forum from Jose introduced a
very interesting theme: Jose alchemical/yogic lines there might be to the notion of "bread" and "wine" in
both the New and Old Testaments>. He also added some remarks on the line
"bread - fermentation (leavening) - growth" and "wine - fermentation
(distillation?) - purification".

Both themes are tightly associated in the idea of elixir, which was also
called "fermentum" (leavening) in the XIV century tradition that developed
the idea of elixir in Western alchemy. At the same moment, distillation of
wine was recognized to be an alchemical concern by John of Rupescissa in his
Liber de consideratione quintae essentiae. Interestingly enough, both in
the elixir treatises and in Rupescissa's Liber the eschatological and/or
mystical meaning of alchemy is surfacing, albeit without explicit reference
to the mustard seed parable. But the theme of the seed is explicitly
referred to by Meister Eckhart in his treatise about Geschiedenheit
(Detachment? I don't know how this book is titled in English translation):
humans have inside them a divine seed that, if cultivated, gives as its
fruit divine nature ... And production of divine nature inside the human
being was considered the purpose of alchemy by Mary Ann Atwood (XIX c.).
Also: growth AS purification is closely parallel to the annihilation of the
soul (detachment even from one's own will) in the mystical experience
described by Marguerite Porete in her Miroir des simples ames; and it seems
to match some of James Hillman's most recent views on growth (in his Forms
of power).

Back to alchemy: purification and "spiritualization of bodies" seems to be
the main concern of alchemists who distilled wine (from hints in the Liber
de vinis commonly attributed to Arnald of Villanova, to full development
from Rupescissa to Paracelsus). Fermentum, elixir, quinta essentia are on
the same line of development, and all of them are tightly connected, in the
textual tradition, to a deep concern about the relationship between
alchemist and nature. In the pseudoLullian Testamentum, as well as in the
Rosarius attributed to Arnald, this discussion develops into the image of
the marriage between alchemist and nature, where HE puts in her the seeds of
perfection and then waits for HER delivering the philosophical child: the
artificial (conscious) activity of the alchemist and the (unconscious)
course of nature collaborate to produce material perfection, the elixir,
which is spiritualized body and/or corporified spirit, artificial as well as
natural product. I see in this image the key to understanding alchemy as at
the same moment inner and outer, a way to integrate humans into the larger
context to which they belong not according to the pattern of subject vs.
object but as an integration of living subjects, finite and infinite - a way
that is parallel to the mystical experience.

I am not sure, in closing this message, whether it belongs to the Inner
alchemy or to the Texts forum - maybe my views on alchemy are too
extravagant, or perhaps such is the link I see between those ancient texts
and our modern lives.

Michela Pereira

Subject: INNER - the primordial A-DAM
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 04:46:03 -0400
From: Deanna Herrera

Please if anyone can help me out I would appreciate it. This entry
reminded me of an old book of alchemy where I found a charming depiction of
a man in one tub wearing a crown on his head and a woman in another tub
wearing a crown as well. The two then are, in the next frame, in another
tub together and all you can see is their crowns. The next scene details a
serpent-like creature with a crown atop its head and in the next frame the
serpent-creature divides and becomes again a man and a woman both with
their crowns intact. The engraving obviously depicted the union of the
masculine and the feminine to become something other, a third thing, which
then became the two royals once again. I was taken by the imagery because
it symbolized the alchemical function of the positive animus and anima of
the psyche. When united a certain magic takes place within the self or
soul that may be a beautiful thing or a not so beautiful thing. I was
taken by the ugliness of the scaly creature, it was not an image of light
or holiness in the traditional sense. It was earthy, plain, long toothed
and had warts with a forked tongue, and yet it did not loose its royalty.
So here we have two refined stately creatures becoming one that is
bestial.The two created control over the beastial sides of their own
natures, by merging with the other, making what is earthly royal.
The text was Latin. I do not read Latin thus, I could not read the authors
interperetation. I am sure this engraving has been reprinted and used in
other books. If anyone has any comments or information regarding the
symbolism of making love as an alchemical process please reply.
I am new to the discussion group and I beg your patience if I did not make
my inquiry in proper sequence of the other responses.

Deanna

Subject: INNER - Cabala Joseph
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 19:12:20 -0800
From: Belle Hall

Dear Jose,

Yahoo for you; I am familiar with the story of Joseph and I do follow
what you are doing even though I personally do not want to play with the
numbers. I have often wondered about why Joseph is the son of Rachel
and what significance it was that Jacob married Leah under that veil.
Leah means "wild cow" and Rachel means"ewe".

Do these tie into astrology? Since Jacob is the seed of the 12
tribes..... The cabala book I studied for a while categorized many items
according to the zodiac. Many alchemical pictures make use of zodiac
symbols. If I recall each of the sons is associated with a sign. Maybe it
is just "the house" as Aries is the first house? (Too many questions
sorry.) With which "house" is Joseph associated? If he is indeed the ego
then is he of the house as you see yourself? And his bones? they are
forms of calcium/khalix (pebble). Somewhere in my readings I came to
associate bone with the Hebrew word luz. Because it is hard, it represents
what in us is indestructible and then is like a belief in a form of
resurrection (probably not a good word choice..how about
emergence like spring?) Anyway the idea that through a piece of us,we
"might" come back. Sort of like Jurassic Park?

Please forgive my words for being on "pause/still" and "slow". My mind
is on "fast forward" and well .....

Peace,

Belle

And alchemy....sometimes there are twelve stages mentioned and one of
them is calcinatio coming from calx/lime see calcium thus bones.

Subject: INNER - Genesis/Exodus
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:48:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Mackie Blanton

There is also the parallell or prefiguration of Genesis's
Pharaoh/Joseph consciousness in Genesis's Laban/Jacob narrative (esp.
Genesis, Chapters 30 and 31). This section of Genesis can also be viewed
as a transmutation story. The Rabbis tell us that through deep meditation
on wands, Jacob was able to direct spiritual energy and actually change the
genetic structure of the sheep he tended on Laban's land (*Bereshith
Rabah 73; Midrash Tehilim 8:6; Tanchuma B 24; Midrash HaGadol*). Qabbalah
tells us that at this time, Jacob was manipulating some of the highest
spiritual forces that exist (*Zohar 161a, 163a; Etz Chaim, Shaar HaAkudim*).

The jacob narrative of Genesis is also a narrative of the struggle
to "go out/up": for twenty years, laboring on Laban's land, he longed to
return to the land of his fathers. It seems that one can't "go up from"
without first having gone "down to." One must first go down in order to
go up, in order to return. One first must be in diaspora, where one gains
spiritual knowledge.

Mackie Blanton

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:14:46 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Mike Dickman [edited for brevity]
>Externally "anyone who has completed a three year, three month, three day
>retreat" is technically a lama, that is to say, 'someone who has fully
>activated his potentiality'... The ego-filled horrors of this in occedens for
>the moment need not be gone into...

Isn't it a tip-off when you end up reading more about some personality
rather than actual teaching?

>Certainly enough, this scenario (in the real sense of that term) is to be
>found in each and every initiatic system, and of this there can be no doubt.
>However I cannot but return to the fast-descending stick...

Or the light of the diamond of discrimination cutting through? (nice
touch, Mike; I wish I could find a way to actualize this stick in certain
email exchanges)

>PS - Forgive me if the tone seems aggressive: please read it, rather, as
>ardent/intense.
>Getting oneself checked out, and subtly reoriented wherever one is more, or
>less, out of line seems to me to be fundamental
>God knows, I don't claim to know the first thing about anything at all!

Not to worry. I find this thoroughly enjoyable myself.

I suppose we can apply this to other lessons in life and alchemy...

George Leake

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:06:56 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Belle Hall
>I never dreamed that Inner alchemy group would move so quickly away from
>psychology/universal soul ideas to cabala. And yet somehow I did know.
>Although I am floundering with the"how" you get the cabala (numbers are
>NOT my love) I do not question for a moment the "why".

Again, I apologize for taking so long to respond

One side of the question to look at here is grasping the "what". In other
words, what cabala. There are several distinct varieties. There's the
original, tied to the Jewish faith (and even within it there's apparently
conflict between pre and post-Lurianic varieties; I defer to Gerschom
Scholem for further explanation, let me know if you need references to
texts), then there's an early pseudo-Christian version which Frances Yates
hints has its roots in Lull (again, let me know if you want references),
then there's the modern Western magical tradition, centered more or less
around the Golden Dawn.

Some even suggest certain variant spellings in reference to which variety
one means.

George Leake

Subject: INNER - Exodus
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:00:49 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>> The word Berashith B-R-A-Sh-Y-Th "In the beginning" (Gen. 1:1) is synonymous
>> with Creation. It can be seen as three words each inside the other, like
>> boxes. The central word is A-Sh "fire". The next word out is R-Y "moisture".
>> The outer word is B-Th "daughter". Creation is the union of Fire and
>> Moisture inside the Daughter.

>From: Jose
>This seems to be a pregnant phrase. [edited for brevity]
>Any thoughts?

Sorry I'm joining this late - for what its worth, I've also heard of
comparisons between Berashith to the first word of Beowulf, Hwaet! Hwaet
has some claim as ancestor to the word WHAT, but also it has a bit of a
HARK quality - but actually beyond that according to one scholar here in
Texas. I don't know how radical of a translation of Anglo-Saxon this is,
but she asserts that HWAET is also an urging for the listeners to awake.

George Leake

Subject: INNER - Tarot cards
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:47:56 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Richard Roberts
>When I read Donald's invitation to discuss "anything and everything within
>the fold of alchemy," I thought Adam would welcome the invitation, for I have
>read his paper and agree with him on the Hermetic origin of Tarot cards,
>and his conclusion that they are not derived from the Kaballah. The supposition
>is that because there are 22 Major Arcana in Tarot and 22 letters in the Jewish
>alphabet, there must be a connection, but I have always found it to be a
>kind of "glass bead game" that ultimately becomes a Procrustean bed.

There is some new evidence uncovered by Michael Dummett, Ronald Decker and
Thierry DePaulis in their new book, A Wicked Pack, as to who originated
this concept--which has been popularly believed to have been a creation of
Eliphas Levi--when actually it seems the first seeds of such connections
were planted by one Comte de Mellet (see p. 71 of A Wicked Pack)...

>When Joseph Campbell and I were researching twenty years ago our
>collaboration TAROT REVELATIONS, we were granted a personal tour
>of the Fields collection of playing cards. Some decks had more than
>22 Major Arcana and there were circular cards from India
>and the Orient, so equivalences to Kaballah and the Book of Thoth are really
>spurious.

Indeed. Not only that, but is the what is commonly called the Fool really
a trump? It never trumps other cards in actual Tarot games, and never
Triumphes over anything in the Trionfi paradigm.

Originally we began TR to publish our two unique ways of arranging
>the Major Arcana. Campbell would stay in my apt. when he visited the West
>Coast to lecture, and as "thank yous" sent me Bollingen Foundation books,
>three of which were the Jung alchemical books which Donald mentioned.
>Imagine my surprise when I found certain tableau reproduced in Waite's
>Golden Dawn Tarot. The intended brief book thus became 300 pgs. w/300
>footnotes. By book's end I conclude that "Waite's Tarot is specifically
>alchemical in theme, restoring what may have been the original orientation
>of Tarot.... In the 22 cards comprising the Major Arcana we have a genuine
>Gnostic document of the soul's initiation into higher consciousness. As such
>it may be interpreted as a Western Book of the Dead."

Sure. There's also a specifically masonic thread running in Waite's Tarot.
Too bad there aren't any experts on Freemasonry publishing something on
that. Maybe they keep getting killed off by the Priory de Sion?

>Therefore, I thought Adam would welcome Donald's invitation to steer
>an alternate course from Kaballah to Jung because by itself the study
>of esoteric mss. can be transformative only in the context of and "inner
>alchemy" that culminates in Selfhood, our becoming "gold of the Sun" at
>the end of the individuation process.

I think Adam's trying to keep us on specific INNER alchemical topics,
rather than waffling off on some tangent, like talk about last week's
X-Files episode, or something.

Actually though, there was a fascinating episode on Nova this week that
talked extensively about alchemy and Roger Bacon if anyone wants to chat
offline...

Richard Patz is quite right when he
>says "alchemical transmutation is our own transmutation projected before us...
>ourselves being identical with prima materia." (Aside to Belle, the book
>you mentioned JUNG & TAROT is a spinoff from my book, Nichols free
>associating "anything and every-thing" Jungian). Incidentally TAROT
>REVELATIONS has been in print twenty years and I have a case of 36
>of an earlier edition which I am donating to Adam to make available to
>his members to defray his web site costs.

Please let us know when these go on sale.

Only in his first book,
>'A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake', did Campbell, the world's foremost
>mythologist, collaborate with another author.

Yes--and that work is still treated with the highest respect in Joyce
studies circles

Our book also has an intro
>by England's own Colin Wilson ('The Outsider') in which he
>labels me "part of that 'Outsider' tradition that runs from Goethe to Hesse
>and Camus. That is to say, he woke up early to the fact that he had been
>born into acivilization in which he felt himself to be a stranger." I am
>perhaps an old alchemist. Certainly I identify with The Hermit in the
>Arcana

That reminds me of another thing Dummett and Co. point out--that the
Hermit originally was carrying an hourglass, not a lit lantern. Intimating
the symbol of Time, one of the Triumphes.

By the way, you folks might wanna check out this web site:
http://www.mun.ca/alciato/, here let it speak for itself "Andrea Alciato's
Emblematum liber or Book of Emblems had enormous influence and popularity
in the 16th and 17th centuries. It is a collection of 212 Latin emblem
poems, each consisting of a motto (a proverb or other short enigmatic
expression), a picture, and an epigrammatic text. Alciato's book was first
published in 1531, and was expanded in various editions during the author's
lifetime. It began a craze for emblem poetry that lasted for several
centuries. We use the Latin text and images from an important edition of
1621 and we give a translation into English. "

George Leake

Subject: INNER - Kabbalah
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 17:50:55 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>Aharon
>This is going back to your first letter on the forum... You say you have
>established Tarot-Qabalah correspondences which differ from others
>you've seen (GD, I suppose, and Crowley, among others)
>I'd be interested to know what you find.
>Mike

Personally, I think this might be a bit off topic, but I can provide such
evidence off forum if anyone's interested

George Leake

Subject: INNER - Cabala
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:12:05 -0800
From: Belle Hall

George,

Thank you very much for the definition/redefinition of cabala
types. I am aware that as I read various books sometimes cabala
inferences are made as though the reader should just know which concept
to go with. As a novice please realize that while I sense the differences
I have not as of yet figured out how to be sure as sometimes the lines
are fuzzy.

To stick with it and not give up I liken cabala study to a group
of American literature teachers who "think" they know what Melville meant
when he created Moby Dick. Each has an interpretation which is sometimes
different. They can however agree that it is a symbolic tale even if they
cannot agree to every symbol.

I stuck with the INNER group because I am better at grasping
the big picture and less skilled at details. Each has an interpretation
which is sometimes different.

Somewhere I understood cabala/qabbalah to present the idea of
receiving? I thought that meant for me to prepare to receive?

Peace

Belle.

I just keep spelling it cabala because it is easier. Each has their own
interpretation again but we are still discussing a system of
gematria.Maybe we should go back to psychology again??

Subject: INNER - Alchemy and its effects
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 23:40:01 -1000
From: Gary Whiting

> Alchemy, i.e... Why they feel the need to include its influence in their
> lives. What they expect to achieve, and how it is to live under its
> influence.

I am new to this, and hope these observations are taken with the
respect for our mutual endeavors that they reflect. I think there has
been a lot of discussion of the "gold" in these pages, that aspect of
the work that we hope to achieve, and relatively little talk of what is
"worked", the lead. It seems to me that the initial step is to "stay
with" those aspects of psyche that are difficult, confounding,
demoralizing, depressing, i.e. "leaden". "The unconscious is always the
fly in the ointment", as Jung said somewhere; that side that is in
"shadow", anything but perfect, perverse and out of control and chaotic.
Yet this is a fecund chaos, if consciousness can "encompass" it (the
"vas" as central to the Art), work to bring order. But the lead is the
starting point (potentially toxic and overpowering, poisonous); only by
acknowledging and experiencing the ways that we are a mess (massa
confusa) are we are in the middle of the work. That's what in us needs
working.

And it goes deeper than that: I have had recurring dreams where I
have somehow lost everything; am in a new town, knowing no one, no job,
no skills, no family, totally bereft and destitute, starting with
nothing and just existing, with a deep ache and sense of loss and
alienation. I wake up wondering what this signifies: my life is full,
with a strong marriage and children and friends and successful
profession--why this sense of emptiness and despair that is so poignant,
even powerful: enduring something of immense weight. Lately in reading
Mysterium Coniunctionis, came across the section in which the lapis is
referred to as the "orphan", the "son of the widow", something alone and
solitary, "solitaire". The spark of light is "trapped in the stone",
something holy and pure that has been thrown into this dark realm of a
world and forced to "work" from within this horrific 3-D prison to bring
it to the likesame purity, if possible. But as Holderin and Nietzsche
knew: "Where danger is, so also is salvation": without the very real
risk of light being overwhelmed by corrupt nature, there would be no
motivation, no need to do the work. Jung says that depression prompts
"an involuntary introversion of attention"--it is often clear to me that
depressive symptoms prompt deeper work on life for people, though their
need to seek psychological help is initially seen as anything but a
blessing. James Hillman is aware of this "symptoms as harbingers"
aspect. I respect alchemy for recognizing and committing itself to
working on the world, for engendering an idealistic sense that there is
something that "calls out" to be rescued (the King, drowning in the
sea). Jung was aware that alchemy represented a continuation of the
redemptive work of Christ, turned now outwards, now that our souls have
been saved. Yet it seems essential to me that we are alive to the
anguish of existence (the "dukkha" or suffering that Buddhism teaches)
to be doing the work. The lure of gold itself corrupts the work; this
is the dragon that always guards the treasure, the last temptation.

Thank you for your reading and attention; these issues are very
sensitive and close to me--careful comments appreciated.

Best wishes,

Gary

Subject: INNER - Cabala
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 14:46:41 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Belle Hall
>As a novice please realize that while I sense the differences
>I have not as of yet figured out how to be sure as sometimes the lines
>are fuzzy.

I think it can at least from the outset be approached from the angle of
your belief system. If you are a strict Jew--then you only have one way to
go. Some Christians dislike all qabbalah, some might embrace the
lullian/ficino/mirandola approach as suitably Christianized, some may say
the Golden Dawn approach is for them

>Somewhere I understood cabala/qabbalah to present the idea of
>receiving? I thought that meant for me to prepare to receive?

I'm not sure what you meant with this, but this nugget my sig.other
forwarded to me from a teacher of hers came to mind:

None of us will ever really comprehend the Infinite Source of Light
no matter how hard we try. Jewish myths tell us that when great sages
actually accomplished this stage and were able to look into the Light
what they found themselves doing was looking back to where they came from.
That the sacred Essence of the Light was *not* at the top of highest
mountain, but at the bottom of the mountain with the mother, the shepard,
the homemaker, the breadwinner. Some sages went mad with the realization
that their journey had brought them back to where they started - few
survived this journey with everything intact. From this I learn that
our task is to find and appreciate the Inifinite Light in our own everyday
reality - finding the Divine in the mundane, and not searching for the
Divine and the Spiritual by discarding all that is mundane.

George Leake

Subject: INNER -Serpents and Sex
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 11:41:58 -0500
From: Gilbert Arnold

In response to Deanna's question I would like to forward the following
comments;

Symbolism was and is a very important part of communicating individual
conceptions of what Alchemy is about; this was done as a function of
alchemical knowledge being expressed symbolically in different ways
including and by;

1) Individuals who had a clear knowledge and experience of Alchemical
procedures but a poor knowledge of symbology.

2) Individuals who had no first hand knowledge of Alchemy but a good
knowledge of Symbols.

3) Individuals who had no knowledge about either Alchemy or
Symbolism.

4) Different combinations of 1,2 and 3.

A medieval monk writing in a monastic context would probably shun the
use of graphic sexual symbology if he intended his work to be used by
other monks and if the monk in question had led a life of celibacy. As an
example, Basil Valentine goes to great pains to explain this very point.
Basil's symbology uses examples from typical renaissance materials ie
greek mythology, Biblical and Sacramental symbolism, practical examples
ect. Basil also states that he was intending to be as clear as possible.

Other male practionners whose sexual experience was a rape of the
female with quick orgasmic result for themselves would describe quick
explosive "alchemical" manipulations with their own sexual symbology.

Sex being as sensitive a subject as "real lab experience" I'll move on to
the specific symbols you mentioned;

The Snake;

In the woodcuts that I have found that had some kind of correlation with
tangible results ( both in physical and spiritual alchemy) there are usually
four kinds of serpents, depending on their modus operandi;

Air serpents; dragonlike
fire serpents; salamander like
water serpents; sea monster like
earth serpents; serpent like

The serpents in questions I have found to symbolise duality in differing
aspects;

1) elemental and physical action

2) catalysing and dissolving action

3) Stabilising or coagulating actions

As to the King and Queen in the bath;

These could represent vitriols from metals; or metals themselves.
The bath could represent a common solvent or process. The crown
usually represents a metal.

Many solvents can be prepared by combining vitriols or salts and
distilling; many kinds of aqua regias not only the nitic acid/hydrochloric
acid combo, the serpent probably represents a foul smelling, dangerous
acid.

As one example; Sulfuric acid (oil of vitriol) and other alkahests appears
to be more "potent" for certain works when derived from copper and
iron vitriols.

Blessings,

Gilbert

Subject: INNER - Thalia the muse
From: Donald Minson
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 00:43:03 +0000

> From: Mike Dickman

> Could you refresh my memory as to the Hermetic
> Tarot cards and Adam's article on them?

Sorry for the delay...here's the link:

http://levity.com/alchemy/mantegna.html

Donald Minson

Subject: INNER - Serpents and Sex
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:31:11 -0400
From: Deanna Herrera

Dearest Gilbert,

So what you are saying is that if the depiction I had described
was symbolic of an alchemical (physical process) then the plates
were symbolic of a specific process of mixing substances (metals, acids
etc...) rather than being symbolic of an internal union of the anima and
animus to create a third entity of soul or the Self. The snake would depict
an actual physical property or event and the type of creature would infer
or be a code for the specific nature of that event. The piece I am
confused about is at what point does the alteration of physical properties
begin to transform the inner world of the achemist and does the inner world
of the alchemist have physical effects on the outer world? I suppose,
because I am a psychologist that I truly have not taken alchemical work
literally as I might if I were coming at it from another angle. I am always
looking for symbolic representations of spiritual growth. It is an
interesting exercise in projection, being who studies symbols I would
naturally interpret say, even the most straightforward alchemical recipe
(please offer a better term) as having a non-physical inner world meaning.
I truly appreciate your comments and am very interested in the symbolism of
the snake creature and how its physical correlates can be related to
archetypal experience. If you are struck by any ideas concerning the final
querry please reply.

To All. How do you spell Cabala?

Dr. Deanna Herrera

Subject: INNER - Serpents and Sex
Date: 27th Jan 1997
From: Adam McLean

>In an old book of alchemy where I found a charming depiction of
>a man in one tub wearing a crown on his head and a woman in another
>tub wearing a crown as well. The two then are, in the next frame, in
>another tub together and all you can see is their crowns. The next scene
>details a serpent-like creature with a crown atop its head and in the next
>frame the serpent-creature divides and becomes again a man and a
>woman both with their crowns intact. The engraving obviously depicted
>the union of the masculine and the feminine to become something other,
>a third thing, which then became the two royals once again.

Do you have a reference to the source of these illustrations? They appear to
be a variation of the 'Pretiosissimum donum Dei' - the most precious gift of God.
This early manuscript of which at least forty copies have survived dates from the
15th century. I have placed a copy of an English translation of the Latin text with
some early 17th century engravings on the alchemy web site. The early text is, I
think you will agree, simultaneously a description of a physical and an inner
psychological process. This particular series of symbols was very influential
and probably inspired to some extent both the 'Rosarium' and the 'Crowning of
Nature' series. The 'Donum Dei' presents the work as a union of two
principles - the male and female - through a conception, and gestation phase,
which descends into a putrefaction, pictured by the worms or snakes, through to
the rebirth of the king and queen in a spiritualised form which has integrated the
snake/worm/scaly dragon aspect. Jumg discusses some of this material in
'Alchemical Studies' where he presents modern drawings from some of his
patients which seem to parallel the symbolism of the earlier alchemical figures.
A physical alchemical process involving the separation, putrefaction and final
purification of substances in a flask can be paralleled with the inner process.
We can use experiences drawn from working alchemically with substances in
flasks as the basis for our meditations on this inner work, just as in some other
traditions images taken from the natural world were used as metaphors for inner processes.

Adam McLean

Subject: INNER - Serpents and Sex
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 00:28:06 -0500
From: Br. Athanasius

There is no essential opposition between a physical interpretation of
a symbol, and a psychic interpretation, the mark of authenticity of a
symbol is that is is able to withstand interpretations of on a multiplicity
of domains and levels.

Truth is polyvalent, and the symbol, which is the expression of the
archetype of truth, is as a neccesary result also polyvalent. This is
the key to genuine understanding of all symbolism, be it alchemical, or
kabbalistic, or otherwise.

It is the most basic error, though, to confuse domains of different
orders of reality, or what is worse to truncate all of reality to one
level. There is a tendencey in modern times toward reductionism,
which is the surest way to render the various traditional studies of
no real value. Reality is hierarchical, starting with the transcendent
and descending down the degrees of reality to the lowest levels.
Said another way, reality is rooted in the upper domain of quality and
conjoined with the realm of quantity, but this relationship is always
assymetrical, the domain of the quality or essence clearly being
ther superior.

That being said, asnwers of a purely psychological order are by
their nature limited and thus incapable of providing the key to the
nature of certain symbols and symbolisms, that is not to say that
they are untrue, or even false but it is to say that it must be born
always in mind of their limited nature, the more true answers are to
be sought in the realm of the spirit, the Nous of European tradition,
this is a fact attested to by the Kabbalists, the Alchemists, (as well
as certain Christian mystics and even Vedantists).

External and rational explainations are the husk, the Interior is the
kernal that must be sought with the greatest effort. To those familiar
with the Zohar, the oft repeated expression "Come and See" is not
merely a literary device but a formula for spiritual realization. It points to
the experential nature of genuine spirituality, and to the objective quality
of it a revealed, (This is expressed by the word " See"). The word
"come" denoted the quality of work and struggle toward the goal, the
jouney toward the pole of reality. Note well it does not say " Come and
Feel" or "Stay where you are and think about it" but " Come and See"
this alludes to the Psalm verse "Taste and See that the Lord is Good"
(it might be noted hear that the root of wisdom in Latin is to "taste")
and the dialogue between, St. Andrew (the First Called) and St. Peter
( the Rock) about Jesus ( the Logos), St. Andrew said only to St. Peter
"Come and See" because rational explaination would fall far short of the
Transcendant reality of the Logos of God. I have expressed these thoughts
in Christian language, but they are truths of a universal order. I hope to
here some feedback.


The least of monks

Brother Athanasius

Subject: INNER - Serpents and Sex
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 09:25:58 UT
From: Mike Dickman

For Deanna Herrera,

Taking your last query first, Qabalah and /or Kabalah seem the most common,
the former being more correct as to the letters (QBLH) of the word, the second
a closer approximation of its pronunciation.

I was interested in the serpent question you've brought up - not least
inasmuch as I'm busy working among other things on a series of naga texts from
the Tibetan...

Nagas, of course (lu [klu] in Tibetan, lung in Chinese), are the holders of
the knowledge and texts of what is technically called transcendent and perfect
insight (prajña paramita - skipping most diacritics) often rather lamely
translated as the perfection of wisdom.

Pra- as a root means 'exceedingly', 'very'; -jña - the root of our word 'to
know' - means just that; and their combination could be taken to signify
'insight', 'realisation' in the sense of perceiving and accepting... Para =
'taking across' and -iti, 'going'; the combined form, then, construable as
'transcending', 'transcendent'...

The Tibetan shes rab pha rol tu phyin pa (pronounced as sherab p'aröltu
chinpa) bears this out. Shes is 'knowing', rab 'supreme', pha 'beyond', rol in
this context seems to be cognate with the abyss of cyclic existence known as
samsara, or 'running around in circles' , as I once heard it put); tu, oddly
enough, means 'to', and phyin pa 'to reach'.

Nagarjuna, the compiler of the so-called Middle Way and most probably of the
sutras on which it is based - notably the Prajñaparamitasutras - was said to
have received these from the nagas... Cf. the following tale...

Nagarjuna - who, by the way, was also a famous alchemist - was abbot of the
great Buddhist university of Nalanda. He noticed, while teaching, that
whenever two young men were present there was always a strong smell of
sandalwood which disappeared when they left. He asked them about it one day
and they admitted that they were actually naga princes and that they anointed
themselves with sandal paste to protect themselves from human impurities.
They then told him that they had been present when the Buddha taught the
Perfection of Wisdom Sutras, and, since very few people had been able to
understand them at the time, had written them down and taken them to the naga
realm in order to safeguard them until someone capable of understanding them
should appear. They invited him to come with them to their undersea realm and
study them, which he did, returning some time later to teach what he had
learned there, and bringing with him the 100,000 verse Prajñaparamita-sutra.

Hope this is of some aid.

Respectfully,
Mike

Subject: INNER - Serpents and Sex
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 03:57:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Mackie Blanton

It seems that many of us spend more time speaking over
one another's energy, as if Alchemy has to be and mean one thing only,
and we won't rest until we get others to mispeak so that we can then claim
that our understanding of Alchemy must broaden.

To my knowledge very few - if any, actually - of the alchemists on our
various lists have ever intimated or outright stated that Alchemy does not
include "non-physical inner world meaning." So the depiction of Alchemy as
described here recently (by D. Herrera), describing certain plates, suggests
both that Alchemy can be and is that symbolic of "a physical process"
(transmutation, transformation, transsubstantiation, etc.) and that which is
symbolic of internal union, change, and reunion.

Obviously, the two ideas of what Alchemy is, suggests the nature of
Alchemical understanding: it is not, in other words, impossible to view
Alchemy as the reunion of our varied assumptions of what it is, and of what
it can be. It's never either/or. It's always both/and. And certainly it
is always many/more.

"Cabala" in Western traditions. "Qabbalah" in Eastern, including
Ashkenazic, traditions. Christians tend to use "cabala." (As someone
else has already pointed out here.)

So, please, let's stop pretending that Alchemists are onsided
about what Alchemy is. Just pay to the transformations.

Mackie Blanton

Subject: INNER - spelling cabala
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 09:00:16 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Deanna Herrera
>To All. How do you spell Cabala?

There are many variations. Cabala, Cabbala, Qabalah, Qabbala, Kaballah,
Kabala, QBLH, etc

George Leake

Subject: INNER - Serpents and Sex
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 97 18:48:33 UT
From: Mike Dickman

Mackie,

Although there are, occasionally (and possibly even only perhaps) elements of
one-upmanship in some of what appears on our forum, I for one am more than
grateful to all contributors, and - indeed! - what strikes me most about them
is their generosity and their humility... Perhaps we are reading different
fora?...

A note, by the way, on qabalah/cabala...

According to Dujols/Fulcanelli (he could just as conceivably be wrong, of
course, and there are certainly distinct moments where one feels that a
modicum of antisemitism might have clouded his opinion concerning the
former), and quoting just his 'Demeures Philosophales' - he often goes
into this subject - there is a very distinct difference between QBLH and
cabala, to the point where they are completely different things with
completely different aims in view, although both equally complex in terms
of technique and diversity...

Cabala he divides into Pythagorean, Hermetic and Phonetic, none of
which has anything to do with any of the aspects of qabalah as generally
studied or understood. It's worth a look.
The exact references are Vol. I, pp 148-169 and p 343, Vol II pp 262-276...
There is also a brief reference in Canseliet's introduction to the 'Mystère des
Cathédrales' (p 27)

Respectfully,
Mike

Subject: INNER - Serpents and Sex
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:01:06 -0500
From: Gilbert Arnold

Dear Diana,

You wrote;

"Dearest Gilbert, "

That a first for someone calling me "dearest" in the context of an
alchemical discussion (smile) <-- another first.

You wrote;

>So what you are saying is that if the depiction I had described
>was symbolic of an alchemical (physical process) then the plates
>were symbolic of a specific process of mixing substances (metals,
>acids etc...) rather than being symbolic of an internal union of the
>anima and animus to create a third entity of soul or the Self. The
>snake would depict an actual physical property or event and the
>type of creature would infer or be a code for the specific nature of
>that event. "

I am not saying that the depiction is not "symbolic". Rather, I was giving
you an interpretation of the symbols from an the point of view of "lab
alchemy" as a context to what could be an interpretation. I am also a
Gnostic Bishop, and carry out Chaplaincy duties that involve some
counseling and I am familiar with Jungian type symbol analysis. I also
have read and used information contained in Adam's publication. My
training as an engineer has permitted me to work in the fields of
Agriculture, Chemistry, Metallurgy, Chemical Engineering, Pharmaceutical
and Phytopharmaceutical Iatro Chemistry, Environmental Engineering thus
giving me a field of life experience to build up a background to interpret
symbols. I used an example in the field of lab alchemy. I could have
used an example in the field of hydrology (water flow in "snake-shaped"
watercourses) or any other of the above mentioned fields. Or I could
have discussed how I learnt about the different kinds of "snakes" by
observing different chemical, alchemical and metallurgical processes.

You wrote;

>The piece I am confused about is at what point does the alteration of
>physical properties begin to transform the inner world of the achemist
>and does the inner world of the alchemist have physical effects on the
>outer world?

When the Alchemist (Defined here as someone who does something
usefull with Alchemical knowledge) begins to learn from the
manifestation of "Why" Gnosis (Wisdom-Sophia) and and "How" Gnosis
(Knowledge-Logos) to result in a harmonious manifestation with the
process of Creation ie " true knowing" .

Blessings,

Gilbert

Subject: INNER - Cabala / QBLH
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:16:50 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Mike Dickman
> - there is a very distinct difference between QBLH and
>cabala, to the point where they are completely different things with
>completely different aims in view, although both equally complex in terms
>of technique and diversity...

For those of you new to the subject, in order to avoid confusion, please
realize that even though Mike here means a specific tradition with "QBLH"
and "cabala", I know for a fact the term "cabala" means several things,
including at least 2 different traditions.

George Leake

Subject: INNER - Serpents and Sex
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 15:07:28 -0500
From: Gilbert Arnold

As I understand from an Alchemical point of view the process of
creation is a result of logos (intent) and sophia (wisdom).

intent wisdom

creation

This is the path of Nature that I strive to follow and to find in the
processes I observe happening around me within any given context, be
it giving the last rites to someone who is dying or preparing a extraction
of iron from it's ore. A path includes a process, a point in given time and
an upcoming direction, all linked, all interdependent.

Blessings,

Gilbert

Subject: INNER: Alchemy and its effects
Date: 30 Jan 97 07:16:25 EST
From: Beat Krummenacher

Dear Deanna,

You wrote:
>The piece I am confused about is at what point does the alteration of
>physical properties begin to transform the inner world of the alchemist
>and does the inner world of the alchemist have physical effects on
>the outer world?

That is an interesting question. I would like to think about it something.
Matter is a concentration of energy from the view of the alchemists. This
sight corresponds to the knowledge of modern physics. The alchemists
have recognized, that the inner evolution directly depends on the ability of the
alchemist to use the concealed energies. One could describe it so:

The higher the charge state of the alchemist in his three bodies, the more
sensitive he becomes on all levels of his existence. The development then is
perfect, if the alchemist supports the parallel development of all his three
bodies. Therefore the alchemist must unfold his spirit, his soul, as well as his
body equivalently.

While the inner alchemy searches to realize this work out from the
mental, theouter or practical alchemy tries to tap the physical sources of
the energy. In practical alchemy it is therefore a question of releasing and
accumulating the energies bound to nature so that they heartily push the inner development. Because the alchemist isolates the three energies out of
matter corresponding to the three bodies and he unites them in his elixirs,
he furthers the development of his whole nature.

Surely you know the difficulties, which oppose the true searching of pure
inner activity. How easily one can be mistaken and influenced by phenomena,
if they exceed a certain degree of intensity. The objectification of such
experiences is difficult, because a repetition of inner experiences is bound to
the single individual.

This is simpler for the practical alchemist. His experiments are
reproducible. If he makes a mistake, and perhaps one of his products
spoils, he can newly begin with his work, without considerably suffering in
his person. With growing experience and skill he learns better and better
to concentrate the sought-after energies and to utilize them. Then he
comes sometime to the point, at which it becomes most interesting for
his inner development: If he takes in his produced essences and elixirs,
so the energies concentrated in these preparations trigger the inner
experiences, which correspond to the energy level of the used
essences. His inner development is accelerated and secured
tremendously. Retro-actively the higher energy state of his body, his
soul and his spirit also improves the cognitive faculty, and so he learns
to still better influence matter according to his desires. Intuitively he
learns to recognize, how he must process matter to elicit still stronger
powers out of her.

The advantage of the inclusion of the practical side of alchemy exists
therein, that the entire development can result in shorter time. For the
alchemist uses not only the powers of his consciousness, but likewise
the energies concealed in nature. He disposes of stronger powers,
as the exclusive mental development would be capable of releasing.

A concrete example: I had once a patient, who dreamt regularly and
almost each night of her own death. She participated in her own burial.
She suffered different diseases, of which she ultimately died. The dreams
were so frequent and intense, that she was strongly hurt in her outer life.

Now you could try to find out, from which psychological reasons such
dreams emerge. You would presumably begin to help her to understand
these dreams and to process them. This would be a simple attempt of a
kind of "inner alchemical therapy".

I pursued another starting point. Immediately I ascertained, that the
woman showed a strong imbalance from an energetical point of view.
In addition her energy field was strongly weakened. Therefore I mixed
some few spagyric essences, which were adjusted to her unbalanced
energy level. I knew being able to mediate with it the energies missing
her using a material carrier. I didn't worry about the psychological reasons
behind her disease not at all at this practical alchemical attempt. I took
the idea as starting point, that a provision with the missing energies in
sufficient quantity will eliminate the illness by itself alone. And lo and
behold: As I spoke with her about her dreams a month later, she informed
me having begun immediately after the consultation regularly taking
in the drops. In the following night she once more had a dream of death.
About three days later a weakened dream of similar content had
appeared. Since this second dream no more negative dreams have
arisen. She felt again heartily and fully recovered. She had again found
her vitality. It gave her no more troubles to cope with the problems of
daily life.

Kind regards
Beat

Subject: INNER - Crowned serpent
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:08:08 -0800
From: Richard Roberts

To Deanna
I had hoped last week to reply to your query re crowned figures in "tubs,"
but two journalists were here interviewing me about my psychological
development as reflected sequentially in my eight books. One of them delves
into animus/a, and I would be glad to send you a comp copy of "Tales for
Jung Folk." One of the stories about the persona was made into the movie
"The Mask." You may contact me off-line at rroberts@hooked.net

I think the strange crowned figure is more likely a dragon, because
Mercurius or Hermes took many forms. As serpens mercurii he was
the dragon that creates and destroys itself as the prima materia.
In Paracelsus, serpens mercurii , or draco, is bisexual and capable of
self-fertilization and childbearing, as he is throughout all of alchemy.
These "tubs" to which you refer are of course the alchemical baths
which effect the transformations. Mercurius' masculine component
is frequently depicted as a solar king, and his fem. a lunar queen.
Their union brings forth the homonculus, the infant Mercurius, who
reverts to prima materia and again differentiates into masculine and
feminine. The symbolism of "making love as an alchemical process"
to which you refer is often depicted as couples in coitus, one humorous
caption to which reads,"I need you as the hen the cock."
It should be remembered, however, that the philosopher's stone,
the goal of the process, symbolized the resolution of all opposites,
hot/cold, up/down, etc. as well as m/f. The latest edition of my book
"Tarot Revelations" has a cover that depicts al the aforementioned
points of your query. There is a likeness of Joseph Campbell as
alchemist making the hermetic gesture of "as above so below." On the
front of his robe are two trines, facing up and down, and touching at
the points. The lower trine contains fire going up; the upper trine bears
droplets descending. Atop the top trine are two crowned heads of a
solar king and lunar queen facing each other. The tableau depicts my
secret theory that alchemy is in reality Tantra Yoga, or rather the form
it took when reaching the West in order to prevent its practioners from
persecution at the hands of the Judeo-Christian religion, which despised
the body and sexuality as invitations to damnation. However, the
crowned couple on my cover are in Tantric embrace. He (the masculine
trine) is on his knees while she sits astride him.
When their union is consummated in the hieros gamos, or sacred
marriage, the two trines become a six-pointed star, another symbol of
the stone. Above the couple is the Stairway of Planets(seven in number),
with King Sol and Queen Luna at opposite penultimate peaks, while at the
very top is the product of their union, a dancing Mercury, and above him in
the sky , a silver globe embossed w/a golden six-pointed star.

Remember the alchemist cannot his goal without his soror(sister). I
myself have been intiiated into Tantra and have experience the sacred
marriage, but this is not the stuff of New Age soul mates coming together.
This marriage cannot be with a flesh and blood person, for then he or she
is still a projection of the inneranimus/a. No, this marriage occurs when
the upper trine of the conscious mind descends to meet the ascending
trine of the unconscious, resulting in a third state which dissolves all pairs
of opposites and contradictions of the other two, a hypnopompic or
hypnogogic state into which all treasures flow from the unconscious
I should know; my last book "The Wind& the Wizard" was basically
channeled from my anima by putting the left brain in "park' and letting
the right brain (anima) do the driving, a state in which I heard the
characters' voices and merely took dictation.
Could I have accomplished the Great Work without my soror? No way.

Subject: INNER - Interpreting symbols
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 09:29:12 -0600 (CST)
From: George Leake

>From: Br. Athanasius

>There is no essential opposition between a physical interpretation of
>a symbol, and a psychic interpretation, the mark of authenticity of a
>symbol is that is is able to withstand interpretations of on a multiplicity
>of domains and levels.

The former I have no problem with (some might suggest is there any psychic
apprehension much less interpretation without physical interpretation) the
beginning, but as to "the mark of authenticity of a symbol is that is is
able to withstand interpretations of on a multiplicity of domains and
levels."--isn't this an arbitrary determination? How is authenticity
arrived at? How does transcendence over a "multiplicity of domains and
levels" determine authenticity?

>Truth is polyvalent,

Perhaps for some...

>and the symbol, which is the expression of the archetype of truth,

What archetype of truth? Yours? Mine? Thomas Aquinas'? Giordano Bruno's?
Groucho Marx's?

>Is as a neccesary result also polyvalent.

You lost me there chief. Maybe I need another cup of java...

>This is the key to genuine understanding of all symbolism, be it
>alchemical, or kabbalistic, or otherwise.

What? That a symbol transcends? Or satisfies your idea of the "archetype
of truth" whatever that is?

>It is the most basic error, though, to confuse domains of different
>orders of reality, or what is worse to truncate all of reality to one
>level.

Agreed.

>There is a tendency in modern times toward reductionism,
>which is the surest way to render the various traditional studies of
>no real value.

As to reductionism in modern times, I think its difficult to
generalize...but the latter part--despite I think some slight
mis-phrasing--I think I get your meaning--indeed, reductionism can be
dangerous to serious study.

>Reality is hierarchical, starting with the transcendent
>and descending down the degrees of reality to the lowest levels.
>Said another way, reality is rooted in the upper domain of quality and
>conjoined with the realm of quantity, but this relationship is always
>assymetrical, the domain of the quality or essence clearly being
>ther superior.

Certainly this is one way of viewing it...

>That being said, asnwers of a purely psychological order are by
>their nature limited and thus incapable of providing the key to the
>nature of certain symbols and symbolisms,

True regardless...

> that is not to say that
>they are untrue, or even false but it is to say that it must be born
>always in mind of their limited nature, the more true answers are to
>be sought in the realm of the spirit, the Nous of European tradition,
>this is a fact attested to by the Kabbalists, the Alchemists, (as well
>as certain Christian mystics and even Vedantists).

Or in other realms, depending on context...

>External and rational explainations are the husk, the Interior is the
>kernal that must be sought with the greatest effort. To those familiar
>with the Zohar, the oft repeated expression "Come and See" is not
>merely a literary device but a formula for spiritual realization. It points to
>the experential nature of genuine spirituality, and to the objective quality
>of it a revealed, (This is expressed by the word " See"). The word
>"come" denoted the quality of work and struggle toward the goal, the
>jouney toward the pole of reality. Note well it does not say " Come and
>Feel" or "Stay where you are and think about it" but " Come and See"
>this alludes to the Psalm verse "Taste and See that the Lord is Good"
>(it might be noted hear that the root of wisdom in Latin is to "taste")
>and the dialogue between, St. Andrew (the First Called) and St. Peter
>( the Rock) about Jesus ( the Logos), St. Andrew said only to St. Peter
>"Come and See" because rational explaination would fall far short of the
>Transcendant reality of the Logos of God. I have expressed these thoughts
>in Christian language, but they are truths of a universal order. I hope to
>here some feedback.

My only feedback to this last paragraph is it seems more Epicurean than
Christian...

George Leake